Will & Bear | Alex Knorr + Lauren Williams
Conversation with Alex and Lauren
Loz Williams and Alex Knorr are Founders of Will & Bear, a hat company made for adventure seekers and totally committed to pushing the boundaries in sustainability. Their hats are made form 100% natural materials, and crafted by expert milliners in Inner Mongolia. This story is one of adventure, good business and inspiring impact. This duo have a true adventure seeking spirit which flows into how they do business, most of it - from their van! It’s no wonder this pair create some of the most perfect hats for life on the road.
“This whole thing has been us fumbling around making mistakes and learning from them. That’s how you do it, right?”
In true entrepreneurial style Loz and Alex created what they couldn’t find - a hat for the road that made a positive impact.
You name it - beanies, bucket hats, outback, straw, kids hats and caps.. they do it all. They have a huge range today and are totally committed to pushing the boundaries of sustainability.
They have partnered with Trees.org and helped plant 200 Hectares of trees to date! They also ensure all the headwater is made of natural, biodegradable or recycled fibres.
If you’re a barefoot wandering conscious shopper these hats are made for you! We loved this interview with Loz and Alex, everything from their can-do attitude to the way that they finish each other’s sentences and their passion for a low impact life on the road.
So let’s dive in - here are Alex and Lo, Founders of Will & Bear. Enjoy and welcome back to a bumper season 3.
Mentioned in conversation…
The beginnings - how Will & Bear came about, the name, the first products, the challenges and the key campaigns that got them to where they are today.
Pinnacle moments of growth and key learnings along the way
Business on the road (from their van) and their learnings from the non-conventional setup
Their approach to remaining sustainable, their partnerships and focus for 2021.
Follow Will & Bear here:
Will & Bear Website
Will & Bear Instagram
Will & Bear Facebook
Full Podcast Transcript - Alex Knorr and Lauren Williams, Will & Bear
Pru:
Hey, Lauren, and Alex and welcome to the show.
Lauren:
Hey.
Alex:
Hey, how are you going?
Pru:
Really great, guys. Now, I think we have to tell our listeners straight off the bat where you guys are the moment because obviously you run your business from the van sometimes, and sometimes you set up camp for a little while. So where are we hearing from you now?
Lauren:
We are in maybe the most undesirable place in Australia right now. We're in lockdown in Melbourne.
Pru:
I think it's just good for everyone to know. It's like you guys have such a dynamic story. And so to hear where you actually are, it always just helps everyone make a little bit more sense. So I wanted to kick off our interview today, I mean, right off the bat with asking about how the name Will & Bear came about?
Lauren:
Well, it's actually one of our friends helped us come up with the name. We were trying to find something that would represent both me and Alex but also be a name that had a bit of intrigue, I guess and could be anything.
Alex:
And felt inclusive and not too hard edged as well.
Lauren:
Yeah. So Will is me, Loz. My last name is Williams and I used to get Willow at school.
Alex:
And my spirit animal apparently is a bear.
Lauren:
It's definitely a bear with his hand stuck in a honey jar, itching his back on a tree vibe.
Alex:
Yeah. So that would always come up when we were camping around the campfire. I was just like-
Lauren:
Well, one of our friends always loves to talk about spirit animals-
Alex:
Spirit animals.
Lauren:
[inaudible 00:01:35], and it came up a lot of times.
Alex:
Yeah, there was just no question on that one apparently. So it stuck in there for-
Lauren:
So Will & Bear was thrown on the table with a bunch of other names. And the reason that we ended up picking it was because we thought that like ... We knew that it stood for us, but no one else did. So we thought it could mean anything. It could be a father and a son. It could be a sister. It could be sisters, it could be friends, it could be lovers, it could be anything. And we thought that was good, because that was the brand we wanted to create where people could see themselves in it.
Pru:
I love that. That's such a nice connotation to it, doesn't it? Really that people can see themselves in your brand.
Lauren:
Yeah, that's the whole purpose of their marketing and stuff.
Alex:
Yeah, that's that's a real ... Communities are a big pointing factor for us. So we try concentrate on that a fair bit.
Pru:
Yeah, I love that. And it really does come through in your brand so loud and clear, this global community that you've built. So, I definitely I'm going to get there. But I want to rewind the clock a little bit. And I'd love to hear actually what was happening in your world when the idea of Will & Bear came about.
Lauren:
We were dating. We had just started dating.
Alex:
We were freshly dating.
Lauren:
High on love, definitely.
Alex:
We met on an app called Tinder.
Pru:
So romantic. I love that.
Lauren:
Very romantic.
Alex:
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:03:13].
Pru:
A classic love story.
Alex:
Well, in deed very nice, 100%. Yeah. We started traveling together.
Lauren:
Yeah, so we've been dating for six months. And Alex invited me to go to Tasmania with him. Him and his friend were going, and in at the last minute his friend actually pulled out, which turned out to actually be the best thing ever. So we went on this trip to Tassie, and I was trying to get Alex to buy a hat to wear because it was the middle of summer and it was super hot. And it was such a weird process because we-
Alex:
Yeah, I wasn't comfortable. I mean, I went to a number of stores trying to look for one. And I wasn't comfortable with what I was faced with. It's always either too hard edged country style, or there would be too fashiony.
Lauren:
And it was actually interesting watching him, because I was like, I've bought hats before, I've worn hats for a long time. And it didn't even cross my mind that someone might be intimidated to go into a shop and try a hat on or not, feel like there's something there that would suit.
Alex:
And I have to admit, for my first hat, price point was definitely a factor. I didn't want to obviously spend too much if I wasn't sure if I was a hat person and all that sort of stuff. So there was this friction, and I didn't really relate to any of the brands. None of them really sang to me or said, "We really like connecting a hat and nature or outdoors. That's exactly where you want to be," in a contemporary way, I guess.
Lauren:
And then it was actually like even just the idea that neither of us knew a hat brand that we wanted to buy a hat from but we live in Australia where you need a hat so often. It was like something just clicked in our heads like, isn't that so strange? Like that's such a weird concept to think about. And that's where the idea came from. And then we just started. We actually ended up getting a hat from a vintage shop and ended up traveling Tassie for 10 days and taking these amazing photos, and the idea of Will & Bear just came from that trip.
Alex:
Yeah. And because of Tessie is so amazingly, it's beautiful, the landscape is amazing. So you, in this nature and these photos came out really beautiful. So we were like, "There's something in that as well as this storytelling aspect to this hat." When we got home it was also like this hat just sat there in our room as a reminder of that trip as well. So there was something, it was just all these memories tied to it and these experiences that you put it on and almost transported back to us. So this is real romantic aspect to it.
Lauren:
For us anyway [crosstalk 00:05:42].
Alex:
For us. Sorry, that [crosstalk 00:05:44] for everyone.
Lauren:
[crosstalk 00:05:44] everyone.
Pru:
It's true. It's absolutely true, though. And as you say it, I can actually feel the experience because you're right. It's such an intimate piece that you actually wear, and it goes on adventure, after adventure, after adventure. It does store so many of those memories that we have on the road.
Lauren:
Yeah. And that's what we wanted to capture, was we wanted to capture, not just us having those adventures, but our customers. We wanted our customers' adventures to be part of the story as well.
Pru:
And so tell me when you were ... So you've got this 10 days when you're in Tassie. And actually, as you're talking through this story, I can place myself in it. I've been to Tassie, and I love Tassie and its ruggedness, it's such a beautiful place, as you say. But also coming to this realization that there isn't a hat brand in Australia that really resonates with the young modern traveler. I mean, that's quite a pinnacle light bulb moment for you guys to have while you're down there.
Alex:
Yeah, that was probably the [inaudible 00:06:52] obviously working. We obviously saw a gap in the market there.
Lauren:
I think it was also-
Alex:
And it was a product we wanted, obviously, but I couldn't find it. So I think fulfilling that need, obviously is part of it as well.
Lauren:
I think it was good timing too, because it was just around ... It was obviously a couple years into Instagram, but it was when everyone just started, I suppose getting really inspired by social media and the idea of getting out and sharing your experiences. So I think the timing was on our side in this as well.
Alex:
Yeah, that's a really good point. We got a bit lucky in that respect. It was the right time in terms of Instagram. Everyone was getting outdoors. And it was really the start of that era, really.
Pru:
Yeah, that online travel exploration, that kind of voya kind of energy that was out there. So was it in those 10 days ... I mean, once you had this realization, did you just start working on it or did you just sit on it and let it bubble away until you got home?
Alex:
I feel that I give Loz credit for this-
Lauren:
I went pretty turbo, to be honest. Whenever I have something to do, I'm a list person, and I really love ticking things off. And I'm like, okay, I said, let's start a hat company. So I guess I'm going to do it now.
Alex:
And I'm a creative, so I have all these ideas all the time. So it's like, I've had a million ideas. And it's just funny that at this, the right time, the right place with this person, that idea actually stuck. And there was someone there that was willing to follow through.
Lauren:
Yeah.
Alex:
And then the next thing I know we have, what? Some samples.
Lauren:
Yes, so after Tasmania, Alex actually went to Japan, America and Dubai. So he was working for a few different clients overseas with his own design, studio, I guess.
Alex:
Yeah.
Lauren:
And so he was overseas for about three months. And during that time, I knuckled down ... I was still working as a mortgage broker at that time, actually. And as soon as I finished work every day, I was on the computer googling absolutely everything I could about hats and how to run a company. And by the time he got back, we had our first round of samples ready. And then I think it was maybe six months. After that we put a would be hats deposit a lot of hats.
Alex:
Yeah, it was pretty, pretty crazy to be honest. And when she says [inaudible 00:09:28], I was a freelance designer. So I was working for myself at the time, which is also very taxing on us. And so when we had the idea we were also working two full time jobs. So there wasn't really any space for much of this, but it was just amazing that it was happening in front of me and I was blown away when I got back and we had samples. That was it. That was the catalyst. We were like, we've got to do this now.
Pru:
It's real. What a ride, hey. So you guys, I mean, I think all our listeners can tell at the moment, you're just like people that jump in wholeheartedly. I mean, you've been together for six months, you take this trip, you've got this idea, all of a sudden, you've got a brand, you've got a company, and you're just [crosstalk 00:10:12]-
Lauren:
Sorry.
Pru:
I was just going to say, and then before you know it, you've put what is a small house or a house deposit into a sample range of hats. So I mean, even from the outset, it's like you guys have this winning combination as well. Alex, you having this really creative mind and super visual, and Loz, you're just like, it sounds like you're the action taker and the doer.
Lauren:
That's about right.
Alex:
Yeah.
Lauren:
Actually it sounds like a great duo. Sometimes we're completely butt heads. It's not perfect all the time. But it's the reason that Will & Bear is what it is. But it's not without its struggles being so different.
Pru:
Of course. So tell me about those samples? I mean, how, where, what, how did they come about?
Lauren:
So we ended up finding this old factory in Inner Mongolia, that we got a few samples from. We sampled a couple.
Alex:
And before, we had no idea how to do this, we just fumbled our way through it.
Pru:
It was Inner Mongolia, the place that you first found to fumble along and do this? [crosstalk 00:11:17] out there.
Lauren:
We had a couple different suppliers, what I was talking to, but the Inner Mongolia supplier had the best product. So we were very fortunate that that was one of the first people that we did contact, and they're still our supplier today. And they make amazing products. And they were using amazing materials. And we go ahead the first ... I obviously did help design the first round then Alex really, when he saw them made them a bit better.
Alex:
Yeah, I took the lead on that. And then there was also this aspect of, we didn't really know if the story, and the way we wanted to portray our products would resonate with the wider audience. So there was this moment where we did have these samples, but we didn't-
Lauren:
Really know know what the next step was.
Alex:
... we were like okay, well, how do we actually ... We wanted to be just talking to people in the world or displaying this in the world. So we actually-
Lauren:
Well, firstly we told all of our friends and family and they were like, "Okay, so hats for adventure and photography." And everyone was like, "Yeah, it sounds great, guys," knowing that we jumped into absolutely everything.
Alex:
Yes. But we didn't really know how to communicate this to the world. So actually, there was this moment when I was at the pub with my friends. And I was just like, "Okay, well, how are we going to test this concept? I think this is a great idea. Boys, what do you think?" And they were like, "Yes, it sounds like a good idea," rolling their eyes kind of thing, like a million ideas you've had. But then I was like, "Well, what about an Instagram account? It's just like a travel inspiration, but it's only with people in hats. And then we can tell that story and practice telling that story. And create a visual aesthetic off the back of that."
Lauren:
And make sure that people actually want to see people adventuring in hats.
Alex:
Yeah.
Lauren:
That was the whole concept.
Alex:
Well, yeah, that was the concept. So we were like, let's do our best to put an image gallery together on Instagram and see what the response was. And this is where Loz comes in again. So it's like the same setup here. She really get ... Seats down and, "How do we work out this Instagram thing?" And she gets to work. And we have a next.
Lauren:
We ended up creating this account called Babes in Hats. It was very simple. It was just photos of people in adventuring in hats. And it was really strange, because at the time, we're like, "Yeah, we'll do this, we'll test our messaging and we'll see how it all works. And if this is the vibe we want to go with." And then it turned into such an amazing resource in the end, because it ended up building this community of photographers and travelers, and we got to start communicating with these people and start building relationships with them. And that so many of them transferred over to Will & Bear when we launched Will & Bear as a separate entity, a separate account. And we're still working with so many of those people today.
Pru:
That's incredible.
Lauren:
So it was like we accidentally build our community before we even launched the brand.
Alex:
Yeah, well, yeah sort of accidentally.
Lauren:
Semi-accidentally. The idea was just to test the concept.
Alex:
We didn't know it would grow that quick. It actually grew very quickly. Within a short amount of time we had 30,000 followers. We were like, "Whoa, that's a lot at the time." So it was a really interesting exercise. So we obviously were confident in the fact that there was something there.
Pru:
And was that just really organic growth that that ... I mean, it sounds like it was the early stages of Instagram, you guys were just trying it out. It's a pretty random idea when you say it out loud, let's say if people like looking at people adventuring in hats sounds a little bit random. So, I mean, was it just organic growth?
Lauren:
At the start, it was organic growth. And we did a few tests out like, "What about like, let's see what these apps and stuff do." And as soon as we started using those we're like, "Okay, that's not going to work." So we stopped that pretty quick, which was really good to test because at the start of Instagram, it was like, do you use that? Is that a tool for business? Or is it not okay? And we obviously learned pretty quick that those tools were not okay, so we didn't go anywhere near that with the Will & Bear. But it was mostly organic, and it was mostly me spending five to six hours a day, scrolling, talking, liking, commenting, which was super time consuming, but it was really worth it in the end.
Pru:
Amazing, amazing. Okay, so you've got this first sample range of hats. And at the same time, you've launched this Instagram account, Babes in Hats. What comes next?
Lauren:
To come next.
Alex:
Well, we had to really-
Lauren:
We had to commit to if we were going to order. We ordered 2,000 hats to start with, because we wanted to have a big enough range and meet MOQ. So we had to make a decision on whether or not we were going to place our first order. And I actually remember the conversation. We were sitting out on our porch, and Alex said, "You know what, let's just think of it differently. Instead of thinking about the fact that we could lose all this money, what about we think about maybe we spend all this money, but we get a degree in what not to do for a business if it fails," and what to do next time. So, it's think of it as like a learning experience, which is like a motto now. Since that time, it's been like, "Okay, cool. Yeah, we're going to take risks, but we know that we're going to learn from them if they work out or not." So that kind of [crosstalk 00:16:47]-
Pru:
That's such sage advice, really. I mean, I think a lot of people would not-
Alex:
[crosstalk 00:16:51].
Pru:
They want not make mistakes in business. But I mean, even if you do make mistake, it's like that's your own apprenticeship in your own business. You've learned so much through that process.
Lauren:
This whole thing has been us fumbling around making mistakes and learning from them. That's how you do it, right?
Alex:
Yeah. And it's really easy to say all this in hindsight, right? But when you're in it, sometimes you don't really see it from that perspective.
Lauren:
During the meltdowns.
Alex:
During the meltdowns it's really hard to say that. But I think probably I experienced ... Not many people know this, but Loz actually started a shoe business when she was 19, which is actually pretty inspiring. And I also had another business, marketing business that failed. So there was a bit of confidence in that, that I could say that if you do fail ... I mean, I don't think Loz actually was a fail, she ended up upselling it. But mine was definitely a fail. And I had to pick myself up off the ground and start again and build my client list out of it as a sole contractor. But that gave me the confidence to be like, "Cool. Well, if we hit rock bottom, then you just get on with it. And you ..." Yeah.
Lauren:
You know what? Then there was like, it was like, "Okay, yeah, we'll treat it as a learning experience." But we also said, "If everything turns to shit, and we lose all of our money, and we hit rock bottom, we'll just live in our van." Oh my god! We could just live in our van. And that also sounds like the complete dream. So it's like a win-win. And we ended up leaving in the van. We did not hit any rock bottom, so ...
Pru:
I'm so glad that we're having this conversation. And Alex, also how you talk so openly about your marketing business being a failure. It sounds like now not a whole lot of emotion attached to it. Just like, okay, well, the worst thing actually did happen. And I just got off and kept going the next day.
Alex:
Well, yeah, it wasn't exactly like I got up and kept going.
Lauren:
Maybe, [inaudible 00:18:49] now he would.
Alex:
If it happened now, 100% I would. And that's [inaudible 00:18:53] confidence behind me of what happened with that. I'm really [inaudible 00:18:57] now. But, at the time, I did concentrate pretty heavily on what I've done wrong, and that got me on stuck and I ended up with being depressed and being down. So it it wasn't that easy, but I think the struggle actually helped everything in the long run. I wouldn't change anything ever. Looking back now, it's probably shaped me to who I am. So it's like one of those double-edged swords. It's like, you don't want those things to happen, but at the same time they-
Lauren:
You wouldn't learn-
Alex:
... they have to. Sometimes you just got to roll with it, so ...
Pru:
Incredible, incredible. So guys, when did things really start ramping up for Will & Bear?
Lauren:
I reckon it was about 12 months after we launched. So we launched five years ago.
Alex:
2016. Start of 2016.
Lauren:
Yeah. Lose track of time. Yeah, so it's 12 months. After that we had our first market. The head of the Finders Keepers market?
Pru:
Sarah and Brooke are two of my dearest friends. I've heard of Finders Keepers market. They're amazing.
Lauren:
I love those guys. Those markets helped launch our brand. It was amazing. We did that circuit for two years. But the first one we ever did was in Melbourne, and we sold out of all of our hats. And we were like, "Oh my god, this is crazy!" And it was just, we could talk to customers. And we got feedback. And people were like, "yeah, we follow you. We love the brand. We love the idea." And that was when it took off. And I think a few months after that we did a trade show. And we ended up getting about 50 wholesale accounts in this one weekend.
Pru:
Wow!
Lauren:
Which was amazing. But also it was a double edged sword because we had no idea about stock management. And we accidentally sold all our hats to wholesalers.
Alex:
And we didn't really have anything that resembled a cash flow. I mean, it did resemble it, but it was just not a very good.
Lauren:
That was a big learning curve, actually.
Alex:
So that was one of the first little hurdles that we had to get over, not selling all our stock at a wholesale price. That was very interesting, little learning exercise for our business.
Lauren:
Yes. It's about a year afterwards, and they were the two pivotal moments when we were in front of customers and we could see that people really did like the brand and really did want the product.
Alex:
Yeah, it really did give us confidence. We have one that we sold out most of that stock over the weekend. And we were blown away. So we were like, "Well, okay, let's just go even harder on this." And that was when you quit your job.
Lauren:
Yeah, so I've been working at a bank for 11 years. And yeah, just after that market, we were like, "You know what, let's just put everything we have into this and see what we can do." And I quit that job and went full time.
Alex:
Which was a fear of a leap of faith. And it's also the same time we decided to move into our van the first time and actually the markets are the catalyst, yeah, for us doing that. And traveling up the east coast of Australia, from Melbourne to Sydney to Brisbane multiple times a year.
Lauren:
Just slinging hats out of the back of our van.
Alex:
Yeah. We had a big trailer. We bought a trailer. We put them all in the back there. And then this is all meanwhile, while we had this little tiny warehouse set up in Melbourne, here.
Pru:
Wow! This is the definition of the spirit of adventure. So you had huge success at this market. You decide, okay, let's jump into the van. I mean, it just makes natural sense, doesn't it? The markets are great. They're wonderful for us. We've got the van, why wouldn't we just ... I mean, it's the modern day Gypsy story really.
Lauren:
Our parents weren't quite as excited. Our family was like, "Are you sure you want to not be a mortgage broker and you want to sell hats, is it? You're saying hats?" And everyone was like, "Are you sure really?"
Alex:
Yeah, I think [inaudible 00:22:53].
Lauren:
Yeah, my mom was like, [inaudible 00:22:56] ... I remember one day my sister said that ... Something about, "Mom asked me to make sure that you were okay, because you were moving into a car and quitting your bank job." And it was really funny because it was a couple years ago at Christmas. I remember one of my aunties was like, "How are you doing? How's the business?" And my mom jumped in and was like, "She's doing so well. This is her Instagram. Look how many people follow her. And she sells this many hats." And I'm like, my mom finally feels comfortable with it now.
Alex:
She gets it.
Pru:
I love it. I love it. And so it was about 12 months in when you had the confidence to say, "All right, we're onto a good thing here."
Lauren:
Yeah.
Alex:
Yeah. It was pretty ... There was not much happening in the first 12 months, let's be honest.
Lauren:
[crosstalk 00:23:39] crickets.
Alex:
Yeah, let's do crickets. But I mean, we [inaudible 00:23:44] go through sales. But we also didn't really get a handle on ... I think the commitment aspect of this stuff is really also where it ramped up as well, knowing when to commit. We were still working two full time jobs, which was a hard slog. So we still had orders to send out but not many. And Loz made to do it first thing in the morning before our other jobs started. I think it was just really good timing that we had that good solid market. And we had a couple of wins on the board and really gave us the confidence to just go, "All right, stuff this. Let's just throw everything else in and go for it, essentially." And that's really when everything started to sing, essentially.
Pru:
That's so cool. I remember reading, I think it was a quote from Richard Branson, which is like ... Maybe it wasn't. It was something about great leaders. It was a leadership quote, but it was like great leaders make big decisions with 60 to 70% of the information. It sounds like that's what you guys do, a few points in your story is travel ... You get a few runs on the board and you're feeling good about it. You don't know exactly what it's going to look like but then you're willing to jump all in.
Lauren:
It felt like it was just this snowball. And it was just going and going, like, we better just get on, we better get on with this. But there was a lot of those little gut decisions and they turned out great, we turned out to be right.
Pru:
So awesome.
Lauren:
[crosstalk 00:25:15] one of those decisions, it's like you're putting it out there for it to be right. You know? Like you're-
Pru:
It's been a co-creation, isn't it? It's like, yeah, you make it become right.
Lauren:
Exactly.
Alex:
Yeah, you put it into world.
Lauren:
That's what I always say when we have a really hard decision, I'm like, "Okay, cool. It doesn't actually at this point, whatever decision we make, it's going to be the right one because we're just going to make it work."
Pru:
Yeah, I love that. All right, talking about making things work. So you guys, you go to the Finders Keepers. You've had a repossession of Finders Keepers ... And I really want to give the girls from the Finders Keepers a shout out here. I think they were second or third episode, but also great friends and clients in the past. Just what they've done for Australian small business is next level. It's so amazing what they've done. So big shout out girls, if you're listening. I know that you listen to the podcast. So shout out to you guys. Now, okay, so back to you, Lauren and Alex. You jump in a van, and is this when you start living in the van for a while?
Alex:
Yeah, that first time when we were traveling up to the market.
Lauren:
Yeah, so it was like second year in. Yeah, we decide to pack up, move into the van. And we're between south Australia, Queensland and Vic, mostly, traveling in between markets. And at the time when we made the decision, we were like, "You know, it's going to be cruisy." We're like, "Do a little bit of work with this market, we'll surf and be real chill." As soon as we jumped in the market, the businesses completely took off. It was just after all the trade shows and everything. And it was fun, but it was super challenging. Super challenge.
Alex:
It was really hard, actually.
Lauren:
Yeah.
Alex:
Because it was the first time we lived in the van as well. So we hadn't got used to it, let's be honest. And we would try and to do this whole business thing and basically hang on for deal or offers. It was all unfolding around us.
Lauren:
And we're trying to surf also [crosstalk 00:27:11].
Alex:
And I was like, "I need to surf." So there's always-
Lauren:
[inaudible 00:27:14].
Alex:
Yeah, so it was like, we were very, I guess intense for the section of that.
Lauren:
It was hard, but in hindsight, it was the idea of the brand was adventure and hats for the road. And us living on the road totally embodied that. So as well as like doing the markets and doing all of that helped us sell hats. Living on the road helped us actually submit what the brand was to people as well, because we were on the road meeting people the whole time.
Alex:
But it was authentic as well. We're actually telling the brand's story through our travels. Because it's what we wanted to see like the world. It's like we created the world or the life we wanted to see in a brand. It was all happening all at once. Does that make sense? We had this vision, and we were trying to create it, but we didn't really realize how much of a struggle it would be trying to do that and run a business at the same time and try grow this thing. So it was a very, very interesting time. We had some amazing times that there was some interesting times we were trying to navigate the traffic through Sydney. And then [crosstalk 00:28:29]-
Lauren:
Although, every time we got to Sydney we nearly broke up. Driving to Sydney with a trailer with your partner in your business field-
Alex:
In a vintage van.
Lauren:
We truly nearly broke off every time we go to Sydney.
Alex:
The traffic would just build up and then slow down, and we would be in a bush for two weeks. And we just feel this slowly build up as the traffic build up, so the energy levels. And by the time we got into where we needed to be it was almost a breaking point. Yeah.
Pru:
I love your honesty about it. Because I quite often travel and work in my van as well. And I mean, that's the wonderful side of it. It's like you literally are living the dream. You're out there, you're exploring, you're challenging yourself every day. But then as I was saying, to learn just before we came on air. Sometimes I'm running my mentoring calls from the laundry of campsites, and I have to tell people to pause while I'm directing someone about how many $2 coins they need to make the dryer work. There's this really unglamorous side to van life as well. And I can only imagine for you guys, living in the van for the first time and then also having this business that's just snowballing, not only with direct sales, but also with wholesale sales. Then it's a bit of a pressure cooker, isn't it?
Alex:
Yeah, it really was actually.
Lauren:
It really was. I think it took us about a year and then we were like, "You know what, let's just make it a little easier for ourselves and let's give ourselves a base." And we ended up moving up to Bangalow in New South Wales, which is close to where you are. And then yeah, we set up there. We ended up being there for two, and we were still ... I mean, we were based there for two years, but I think maybe over 50% of the time we were traveling.
Alex:
Yeah.
Lauren:
But that was a nice little break. And then after two years we got [inaudible 00:30:20] again and decided to get back in the van.
Alex:
Yeah, so we started to set up an office up there, which was really nice. And we started to really cement ourselves in the community, which was beautiful. But then we went to Africa. We were traveling pretty much the whole time as well. And then we went to Africa, and that triggered something inside us. It was pretty interesting. Another little twist to the plot, essentially. But Africa is actually where we plant trees. We haven't actually [inaudible 00:30:54] really.
Pru:
Of course. Yeah, yeah, we will ... Okay, take us there now. Yeah. So the twist in the plot, tell us about Africa.
Alex:
Should we take a step back to why we started planting trees?
Pru:
Let's do a little rewind. Okay. I'm going to come back.
Lauren:
[inaudible 00:31:11] tangent.
Alex:
[inaudible 00:31:13].
Pru:
I love the tangent. Well, let's focus back on the van life for a minute. What did you guys actually change? Was it just getting a base to take a bit of the pressure off or did you start to get into some more maybe routines around how you were going to live and work from the van?
Lauren:
So, when we started, it was just a base and just to be somewhere. And then after a while, we actually started renovating. We bought a new van. We bought a four wheel drive then. We renovated that and literally, Alex rebuilt the whole van to suit working and living in it. So it was way more functional than the first van that we lived in. But yeah, because we had been steady in one place for a couple of years, we'd also worked out mentally what you need to be doing to live in a van and make it sustainable and make it a happy place.
Alex:
Yeah. So I think that first experience was really, really a test essentially in the end to what we ended up doing the next round, which was really being strategic about how we did it. And then factoring the business into that, so we actually had an opportunity to redesign things and do it our own way. I mean, by that time the businesses is starting to solidify. We weren't 100% comfortable with ... It's really weave, like when you grow a business, you just never know if one day things are going to dry up. And when you're young, a young business, I think that's probably one of the hardest things to get over. You're still on the edge a little bit. You're like, have we sold too many hats? Or, is there even going to be enough people to buy these, or what's going to happen tomorrow? So you're still living with this constant, Almost fear in the back of your mind.
Lauren:
Yeah, and that's where a lot of decisions were coming up until the last couple of years-
Alex:
Yeah, it was driving a lot of these decisions we were making as well. So it's really interesting. So there's so much the need to go in an extra step further. But yes, so we had an opportunity to redesign the van to the way we wanted it. And that was really nice exercise in it, essentially.
Pru:
And something you guys both just alluded to there was for the first few years, you're in that fear based space about, okay, maybe the whole thing is going to disappear tomorrow. And for me, working with so many creative business owners, that's across the board the belief for the first few years. What was it that changed? Was it something either external or internal that changed for you guys to maybe calm down and ease into it and think, okay, we're on to a good thing here, we're safe to move forward?
Lauren:
That happened so gradually. It's hard to know. I think honestly, it's probably only maybe the last 12 months.
Alex:
I think there was a transitional phase for me first and then Loz, it was like ... I think it happened at different times based on where we were both at, at the time. It's really interesting. I can't pinpoint this one, but this is what we were saying before about this Africa trip was a bit of a realization period as well, where we were like, okay, maybe we don't need to be growing like we're growing because it's actually quite stressful to run a business. But it's like you just feel like you just hanging on to this side of the car for dear life and it's going 100k, so now you can't control anything. That's what it feels like sometimes and you're like, "Well, how do we actually maybe slow down and take stock?" And that's, yeah ...
Lauren:
Actually, now that I think about it, I feel like one of the pivotal things that's changed in the last couple of years is that we've got a few years of data. So we do a lot of forecasting and a lot of seeing trends and things like that. And I feel like because we've got these steady three years of data, obviously, the first year doesn't count because it was crickets and peanuts, and mom was buying all of that hats. But now that we've got that data to fall back on, you can see this steady growth, and you can see the trends and what happened when ... what comes out from the inputs that you put in. I honestly think it's just like we have that time and that data to look back on, which gives us confidence.
Alex:
Yeah, that's a really, really good point. Like, when you first start, you're throwing-
Lauren:
You don't have a year's worth of sales [crosstalk 00:35:45]-
Alex:
It is really throwing shit at the wall, and you're wondering if it's going to stick or keep sticking. I think that's a really, really good point from Loz.
Pru:
Beautiful. Okay, so you guys have dropped in this trip to Africa. Tell us about the trip to Africa. How did this come up?
Alex:
Well, we were living in Bangalow. And we have been planting trees in Africa. So for every hat we sell, we plant 10 trees. And that program is actually in Africa. And it's a really beautiful program. There's lots of humanitarian aspects to it. We hadn't seen it firsthand.
Lauren:
Yeah, and we've been working with the Trees for the Future as our partner. We've been working for pretty much the whole time. We partnered with them about four months after we launched. I mean, we'd always said, one hat equals 10 trees. And we explained a little bit about how the program worked, but because it's actually quite a complex program, and it's very in depth, and we wanted to be able to tell the story better to our customers. We always had wanted to, but we wanted to make sure that we were a strong enough company to keep on bringing as much as we could to this partner before we went over and did the trip.
Alex:
And that's a really good point too, that we really wanted to make sure that we were solid as a business before we made these extra commitments to this non-for-profit we were working with, because we really wanted to make sure it was a solid relationship. We didn't want to promise too much early on.
Lauren:
Because if you don't sell any hats, then you're not planting any. So we wanted to make sure we had a pretty good business. And so we decided to go over to document the whole experience just to see how these projects actually work, which we did. And we've got a video coming out in the next couple of months on that actually. But while we were there, it was the first time in a long time ... Well, pretty much since we started that we were so out of our comfort zone, that we weren't thinking about the day-to-day business activities anymore. And we had time to step back and look at the business, I guess more subjectively from the outside and think, okay, we've just said yes to absolutely everything for five years, we said yes to every opportunity. We're kind of burnt out, and is this the direction we even want our business to be going in? Is it the direction we want our personal lives to be going in?
Lauren:
And that was a huge catalyst actually, because we made some really big decisions when we got back from that trip about how we wanted to run the business a bit differently.
Alex:
Well, it's really interesting, actually. One of the things I vividly remember was like, so if we jump back this a tiny step, in Africa, [inaudible 00:38:37] called forest gardens, so it's about taking local communities, banding them together to create these forest gardens, which actually revegetate these arid landscapes that have been basically destroyed from generations of peanut farming, this mono-cropping. They first plan is tree system, which established the soil. It gets more nitrogen in it and therefore then they can start growing crops and plants within it. They also then created live fences. There's these bushy fences, which then keep livestock out that eat the plants, but they also keep livestock in and there were chickens and goats and stuff that they can actually use for food as well.
Alex:
So this is whole local food production system in these villages. They were visiting ... And we walked, like, it's really funny. You went from going from Dakar, which is this vibrant bustling city, which is really beautiful, but at the same time, there's so many people everywhere. And it's not like a third world country, but it's a poor country. People don't have a lot, but you go out to these villages where these forest gardens are, and you just ... We were in the middle of nowhere. We were strangers. We obviously didn't fit in but these people were so happy just to welcome us.
Lauren:
There was a really nice sense of community.
Alex:
Yeah, you go out there and be smiling and when we wanted to chat to you whereas a very different thing you got in Dakar, or city. And you could tell that these people had enough, they'd had enough food, whereas everywhere everyone was a little bit more desperate or whatever. So it's a really interesting dynamic, but it does show me that-
Lauren:
Maybe we don't need as much. Yeah, that maybe you don't need as much to be happy is what made us think that, right?
Alex:
Yeah, I think that's probably the deep undertone to that story.
Lauren:
It's like where you live and what your life is. And we're not judging anyone at all by what they want. But it's just it made us think, okay, well, maybe we could be a bit more simple. And we would be happy without making life complicated. And maybe we needed to de-complicate our business as well.
Alex:
Yeah. And you could play devil's advocate and say, "Hey, man, you run a business, but still fiddling with all this." But we know that, but it was just one of those whole holistic pitches where you just it just slaps you in the face a little bit and you go, "Okay, what am I?"
Lauren:
Just like a really personal internal kind of moment.
Alex:
Yeah.
Pru:
And was that the similar realization for both of you while you were there?
Lauren:
Yeah, it really was. And I think that came from the fact that we had not stopped thinking just about the business and growing the business since we started it, that when we both just had space to stop thinking little like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Alex:
Yeah, well, it wasn't like we made space, it was like we forced that space.
Lauren:
Yeah.
Alex:
Just because we were out of our comfort zones in another country in another culture, which was a really interesting and a beautiful experience. And, obviously, that's why we believe so heavily in this travel aspect of our brand. I mean-
Lauren:
Yeah, because that's what travel does, right?
Alex:
Yeah. Well, it really opens ... Damn it, I had this beautiful quote.
Lauren:
Sorry. Go, quote it. Do it.
Alex:
No. I can't remember what it is.
Lauren:
It's gone? It's cool.
Alex:
I think that's just where you grow as a person. Every time you see another part of the world, it just makes you more accepting as human, it makes you better. So it's like, [inaudible 00:42:15] we want everyone to go out see the world in our hats, of course.
Pru:
I think just as you guys are talking as well, it's almost like you just took the words out of my mouth, because I think that's the thing that I'll miss most or not that I will but that I do miss most about traveling right now, and particularly in traveling into different countries is just the really humbling experience that that is. I think, no matter where you are and where you go, especially if you're going to developing countries, it just really connects you back into what's real and what actually matters for you in life.
Lauren:
Yeah, 100%. I think that's actually it's really sad that that's not happening right now, unfortunately. And I mean, that's the idea of like, for us as a brand was like, okay, so we have this product that you need in nature. And it's like, the hope is that people who end up with this product are inspired to go and have those experiences. So it's like the product helps them want to have that experience.
Alex:
Yeah, and really our brand philosophy from the get go was to connect people with the outdoors and to live a life outside. So it's like-
Lauren:
In the hope that they'll want to look after it [crosstalk 00:43:33].
Alex:
Yeah, I mean, we've just been going through this at the moment, I mean, with everything going on in the world right now it's really hard to get negative, but it's like ... And it's really easy to get negative, sorry, but-
Lauren:
Not a second.
Alex:
Not hard, easy. But I think you just got to remember that if we create a culture that wants good, solid, systematic change, then, and especially around the environment, we just got to be positive about it. You know what I mean? And there's too much negativity in the world. So it's like, that's the way we see it. We really want to try the positive aspects of getting out there in nature and making sure people connect.
Pru:
Yeah, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's a big reason actually why I do this podcast, is that connection piece. It's like, in order for people to care more about their environment, to care about human trafficking, to care ... They have to feel connected. And I think particularly to the environment. If you don't feel really connected to it, then it's, I guess, more difficult to fight for it. But when you're in it every day, when you're experiencing, when you're receiving these incredible gifts that nature is giving you, connecting you to the what's real and raw and important in life, then, of course, you're going to fight to protect it.
Lauren:
Yeah, exactly.
Alex:
Yeah. That's [crosstalk 00:44:47].
Lauren:
That's that philosophy.
Alex:
That's what we're trying. We've got a bit of a mission around that one.
Pru:
Well, I think you guys are well on your way to fulfilling it. It's so deep in your brand ethos. I think that's definitely what attracts me and I guess everyone else to it as well is that deep connection piece. So if we can come back to Africa for a minute, what did you guys with this realization that you've had while you're there with being able to actually step away from the business and take a breath, and I guess to get off the reactive back foot and maybe get into a bit more of a proactive position. What did you change when you came home?
Alex:
Well, we did a bit of soul searching after that trip. We asked each other the question, what do we want from this?
Lauren:
Also what we, like recapping what we wanted at the start. So we made a five-year plan at the start. And it's almost been five years that we had this big bit of [inaudible 00:45:48] paper. And we're like, okay, we're going to plant all these trees, we want to create a community, we want to create conscious shoppers and all these and we look back and like, okay, cool, we've done a lot of that. But where do we want to go now with that direction?
Alex:
And maybe factoring out our personal selves into that.
Lauren:
Yeah, how can we do it without keeping burning out? Which is that was a lot of ... That happened a few times over the five years.
Alex:
Yeah. So we decided then to really just look at our growth and make it manageable. Before that, we were like ... Sorry, and create the systems around that made it manageable as well. Really hone in on the business, concentrate on what things are going to make ourselves feel comfortable, like I said before, the reporting side of things. Okay, well, if we have this data, then we're confident in that. So we need to be collecting it at all times to make sure the systems are around to do that. So that was a big, big push. And then part of that was the strategic push around growth and releasing products. We stopped releasing products for about six-
Lauren:
Well, because we realized that, okay, at the start, we released five products, four of which is still our bestsellers today. And we didn't ever want to be a fashion brand. We wanted to be just a lifestyle brand. And we actually want to be known more for the culture that we're creating than even just the product. And-
Alex:
Well, no, and we wanted to create amazing products. And I think that's-
Lauren:
That wasn't the whole idea, it wasn't just the product.
Alex:
Yes, it's this whole, yeah.
Lauren:
The idea came, by the time we moved up to 'Bourne, we were around all these other brands, and everyone had these ranges they were bringing out every couple of seasons, which is fantastic if you can maintain that. But me and Ale, we now couldn't really maintain that. And so it wasn't something that we were comfortable with. So we decided, well, you know what, let's stop bringing products out. Why do we need more products, if we're just creating these hats that we want people to have forever? So we decided to slow production. And we decided to stop growing in certain parts of the business, just to make it more manageable and more sustainable for us to grow it, I suppose, long term.
Alex:
Yeah. So we wanted to really make sure we had a comfortable small business rather than a medium business, extremely uncomfortable and we couldn't really manage in a sense. And we wanted to create something we could grow with, and not rush into all this stuff too quickly like we did the first three years. So that was that.
Lauren:
So we decided all of that. And then we were like, and let's go run it from a van again, because that's a great idea.
Alex:
Yeah. We did get a good example this time.
Lauren:
Moved out of our home. Well, before we moved out about home, Alex started renovating the van, so it was going to be suitable to work from. We closed the office. We put everyone, all of our team on remote working. So we have a team of, a chain that's working from New Zealand, Australia, some in Spain, some in the US. So we set the whole business up to just to be as nimble as possible so that we could maintain that working from the van. And the reason that we started the business is to promote that life as well. And to make that possible for the people that work for us as well, so they didn't really have to be in the office and they could do whatever they wanted to. That was a big part of it.
Alex:
It's really very interesting, because as soon as we made that decision to slow down and concentrate on how happy we were in that we constructed the growth of the business ever so slightly to facilitate that. What happened next was actually another growth period, really quickly. It's like-
Lauren:
Well, it's because all of that, stepping back from saying yes to everything, I think created space for us to think more creatively about other ways that we could build the brand. Yeah.
Pru:
And it allows for that focus as well. One of my favorite interviews from last season actually was with a guy called Paul Jarvis, and he wrote the book Company of One. And the whole premise around company of one is just questioning growth for the sake of growth. And we talked a lot about how, in the first few years growth is actually really essential for businesses. You do need to grow, you need to make sales, you need to develop ranges, you need to hire staff at some point. But it gets to a point where it's like, okay, well, it's so important to question when is enough, enough? And I think, as business owners, we so rarely take that opportunity just to have that point of reflection of questioning growth for growth's sake, and what is actually enough for us.
Pru:
And then it sounds like this happened for you guys, as well, but it's almost like you reverse engineer the process in some weird cosmic way. Like when you say, actually, this is going to be enough for us, it's like everything just responds with a wholehearted yes, and growth naturally occurs, but in a more sustainable way.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's actually exactly what happened. I feel like if we hadn't been smacked in the face with it in Africa, and had to think about it, I don't know how long it would have taken us to get there, because it's so addictive to keep saying yes to everything and keep wanting to grow and in the conventional way, but yeah you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what happened.
Alex:
Well, and I think maybe even what happened next was really interesting, the fact that maybe the universe was trying to tell us something, because eight months into our next trip in the van, while we were running the business from the van, it actually broke down in [inaudible 00:51:32], South Australia, and the gearbox completely disintegrated on me.
Lauren:
That was a really sad day.
Alex:
It was a really sad day. But it's also one of the things that has actually been an amazing thing for us, again, to slow us down and take stock. So, I don't know, maybe the universe was trying to tell us something.
Lauren:
Or our van.
Alex:
Or our van was trying to tell us something, anyway.
Pru:
And this is the beauty of staying small as well, is that you can be completely nimble. So if your van does break down, or if you want to set up home base somewhere for a little while, or you want to take a trip to Africa, then you can do any of these things if you do keep at lane.
Lauren:
Well, yeah, it was actually ... And it was like it was strange at the start of the year when COVID happened and everything had to be done remotely. And we were just like, nothing changes for us, I suppose. We'll just work as per normal, but we're pretty happy that we made the decision a few years back to make sure our business was nimble, because who would have predicted something like that happening and needing to be able to move really quickly on marketing and things like that.
Pru:
Yeah, and I feel like this is a big lesson for all of us at the moment, is coming through or moving through COVID, like we are at the moment is that we're all learning to live with less. And it is really the businesses that have kept themselves lane that are, I believe feeling less of a brunt from COVID as well, because there's less change. So yeah, it's a really interesting time of people learning to live with less, but also ... How do I say this? Like making really conscious decisions about where they're putting their money and how they're making their purchasing decisions, and the people that they're investing in.
Pru:
And also this notion that I'm playing with at the moment, I can't really talk about it really eloquently just yet. But it's almost that selfishness is sustainable. So when you do actually put yourself first and the lifestyle that you want to live and what feels good to you, it's going to keep your business really sustainable as well. Because when we're working ourselves into the ground, or to hold up a team or whatever it might be, that it's not actually sustainable for you as a person, or then in turn for the business long term as well.
Lauren:
Yeah, 100%. You need to be looking after yourself. Otherwise, it's all just going to crumble eventually, if it's on your shoulders.
Pru:
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, you guys, I feel like we've covered so much ground in here. And I love everything that you do. I love how it's if you buy one hat then you plant 10 trees. And to hear more about that story, Alex. Thank you for sharing that with us because it's really nice to hear that it not only has an environmental impact, but also a really big social impact for the families on the ground there as well.
Alex:
Yeah, thanks. I had to get that off my chest. That's a funny one. Yeah.
Lauren:
It's the reason that Alex is in business. It's the complete reason that Alex is in business. He's very passionate about it. Actually, on our second date, and we were obviously drunk, I think. Pretty sure we were drunk. But we were talking about what we wanted out of life. And Alex just said that he wanted to make a difference. And he wanted to build something to give him the voice to make a difference in the spaces that he cared about. And I was like, oh my God, I love you. [inaudible 00:54:57] that he wanted to build a tiny house and I was like, oh my God, marry me.
Alex:
Well, we did that but it was just in the van.
Lauren:
Yeah.
Pru:
It had wheels, so even better.
Alex:
Yeah.
Pru:
But isn't it nice? I mean, I think, working with the organization that you're working with, I mean, that's absolutely using business as a force for good and creating that real time change for people on the ground there. But also, actually what you're doing with Will & Bear in terms of connecting people with nature and wanting to get outside and that connection piece, like we were talking about earlier, is what really drives environmental activism as well through connection. So I think you can give yourself a pat on the back there, Alex, because it's working all the way around.
Alex:
Amazing. It's amazing feedback. Thanks.
Pru:
Awesome. Now, it's probably also worthwhile mentioned here that you guys, you're really upfront about using natural biodegradable recycled fibers in your hats. And the fact that you're working with your main manufacturer in Inner Mongolia as well. I mean, has this ever come with some major challenges along the way? Or have they just been on board with your vision from the start?
Alex:
No. It's a gray area.
Lauren:
I think that it's like, we're really fortunate that the product we wanted is so easily made out of a natural material. So quality hats are made out of a natural material. You can obviously make synthetic ones, but that was just never on the cards for us. So we started the whole range with natural fibers, obviously, excluding trims. So I think at the start, it definitely wasn't hard. We just picked the best material. But as we've grown, and we've started working with multiple factories for different ranges, we found that it has been a little harder. We actually hired someone about two years ago, production manager who's now in charge of sourcing and finding the best materials that we can use.
Lauren:
But it's such a big movement in the whole world at the moment that it's ... Not that it's hard, it's just a bit of a process. So sometimes it's frustrating, doesn't happen as fast as you would like it to, but it's going to get there. It's all going to get there eventually.
Alex:
Yeah. It's an interesting, very, I find this absolutely fascinating that this whole discussion, the fact that, to make a truly sustainable company is really one of the most difficult things ever to do. I mean, we'll never going to have zero impact.
Lauren:
No one is, really. Yeah.
Alex:
And we recognize that 100%. But if we can do anything in our power to actually minimize that impact, we will. And that's the philosophy we've had to take into it. Because early on, you give yourself such hard time about not ... Some of the things that you're doing, you can actually start doing. And it's all about a journey, so you got to take steps to get there. So that's really hard to actually one of the first things being starting this business is that we couldn't do 100% of the things we wanted to straight off the bat. You just got to just keep going and keep educating your suppliers around why it's important, culturally, and why it's important for the planet. And slowly they start catching on.
Alex:
I mean, a lot of the businesses we work with are 60-year-old manufacturers, they've been around for generations that have this. They sit in their way. So there's that thing that we're up against as well, that sometimes they don't understand why you're trying to remove plastic from your packaging, because every hat should come in a polly bag.
Lauren:
Yeah, like otherwise your hat will be dirty. We're like, "We don't care. No plastic, please.
Alex:
Please, no plastic in the packaging kit.
Lauren:
That was actually a bigger struggle than it should have been.
Alex:
Yeah, so there's all these institutions baked into these suppliers. But I think if everyone that's manufacturing your product and start having these conversations, it's only going to go in the positive direction. Not to say that everything is going to happen instantly. And we recognize that, and you shouldn't give yourself a hard time about that. But as long as you're moving in that positive direction, and that's the best way for everyone, I think.
Pru:
I couldn't agree more. And I think the more transparency we have around it, then the more everyone gets on board and then we do have this change through the matters as well. So I think it's yeah, hugely admirable for you guys and other people that were featured here on the podcast, no offense. I just recently did their interview and just these kind of brands that started off really little but really holding their integrity and their values right from the start even when it is hard. And it's just through that and through the transparency and through talking about that, and through not beating yourselves up, but actually, patting yourself on the back for how far it does come along the way, that I think ...
Pru:
And also being transparent with customers around what they can expect and what people are doing about it, what brands are doing about it at the moment. I think it's such a powerful time for business to be used as a force for good right now. It's really cool.
Alex:
And so I reckon when we first started, we were also very nervous about talking about these things, especially we weren't sure whether with putting our beliefs out on the table was going to be a negative thing when we first started. We weren't really sure how that ... You have to take a little bit of a leap of faith in that first initial stages. But once we did-
Lauren:
Because as soon as you say you're trying to do one thing, someone's like, "What about this other thing?" And you're like, "Oh, that's ..." We're not there yet. We're just focusing on this. And then we're probably going to be there one day with this other thing as well. But it's like, I think there's something in the fact of just working towards it instead.
Alex:
Yeah.
Lauren:
And yeah, and I think also in not judging people for ... I don't know, it's hard to explain. But it's like, everyone-
Pru:
[crosstalk 01:00:55] be kind.
Lauren:
Do something, right? Everyone can't do everything all the time.
Pru:
Yeah. It's similar conversation I was having with the guys from our fans. It's like they've been doing all this work in the back end, but have never spoken about it because of this. Yeah, just the keyboard warriors out there. And I think if we could just a bit kinder to each other and really celebrate the wins, celebrate the changes that are being made. It's better for everyone all round.
Lauren:
100%.
Alex:
Yeah. And less negativity in the world, I think is probably going to help society along the way.
Pru:
Exactly, exactly. Guys, I feel like I could sit here and talk all day, but I will have to just meet you on the road somewhere, obviously. So-
Lauren:
Yeah, I'm good.
Pru:
When we're all back on the road again.
Lauren:
Yeah. Well, since we are we're taking the van to [inaudible 01:01:42], and that's our plan.
Pru:
Well, ironically, as soon as it's all open I'm taking my van to the Great Ocean Road. So we'll have to wait on the highway.
Lauren:
[crosstalk 01:01:50].
Alex:
Well, hi five [inaudible 01:01:50].
Lauren:
It's so good.
Pru:
I love it. All right, so what's next for Will & Bear right now?
Lauren:
We've got a few things.
Alex:
That's probably a pretty good segue with that whole sustainability thing. Got some new products we've been working with the recycled wool, manufactured Italy, which we were going to release some cotton [inaudible 01:02:20] products, so caps and buckets, which is very, very exciting for us. Because wool is not easily recycled. And it's really hard to find any yarn. So we're really lucky-
Lauren:
That in a few years in the making.
Alex:
Yeah. We're also working with a factory here Tasmania, which is pretty exciting.
Lauren:
Yeah, and we've got a few projects in Australia, not just product but a few new give back projects as well. So a new non-for-profits and stuff that we're going to start doing some projects with. And so yes, sustainability is the biggest thing. The biggest thing coming up.
Alex:
Well, and we've got a recycle organic cotton and recycled hemp ranch coming up as well. Cotton, so which is exciting.
Pru:
Awesome. So you guys are not taking the rest road to lockdown. I love it [inaudible 01:03:18]. Amazing things are being born and by the sounds of things also being worked on for some time. So it's super exciting.
Alex:
It was [crosstalk 01:03:25] one good thing about lockdown. It did focus us on a [inaudible 01:03:30] projects we've been wanting to work on for a long time.
Pru:
Yes So cool. Awesome. Well, I'm sure everyone is following along on your Insta account and if not, they should be because it is beautiful and inspiring and all of the things. So guys, thank you so much for joining me. But before we wrap, I'm going to ask you our one wild ride rapid fire questions. So I might get Alex to answer fast and then Lauren, you can answer second, just otherwise it's going to get real crazy here online with doing this. All right, so Alex, tea or coffee?
Alex:
Coffee. Well, whoa, hang on. Can I clarify that? That was the case and then a year ago I had a few off sleeps in a row and I was like, hang on what's going on here? So I actually cut out coffee and right up before that I was two or three warm blacks a day kind of guy. So it's tea. Anyway, that's a bit of a [crosstalk 01:04:28].
Lauren:
It's tea, but you said coffee.
Alex:
So I used to be coffee and 100% now I'm tea. It's really-
Pru:
So your heart is with coffee but your physical manifestation [crosstalk 01:04:39]-
Alex:
I love the culture. I love everything about coffee. I just don't-
Lauren:
His natural instinct is coffee.
Alex:
I don't drink it. My natural instinct is coffee.
Pru:
And has your sleep radically changed now or [crosstalk 01:04:50] just nothing?
Alex:
Sorry, yes. For the better.
Pru:
All right, moving right along. I don't want to hear these truth bombs. Lauren, over to you. Tea or coffee?
Lauren:
Tea, always tea. I'm way too of an anxious person to drink coffee.
Pru:
The writing is on the wall for me but I won't admit it. Okay, Alex, fate or free will?
Alex:
Fate or free will? Free will. I think you've got to put things into the universe. I think you've got to ... And then your subconscious does the rest of the work. I think that's what happened with Will & Bear.
Pru:
Nice. Lauren?
Lauren:
Free will.
Pru:
Perfect. What kick ass daily habits do you have in place?
Alex:
Now, I'm loving yoga, which is very unusual for me, because I'm very inflexible, usually. So I'm actually loving the yoga.
Lauren:
I also love the yoga. We sound like the same person.
Pru:
But you said basically you're morphing into becoming the same person in life.
Alex:
No, no. Well, you've got to remember we have been in apartment together for-
Lauren:
In look down for most of the year.
Alex:
Yes. For most of the year.
Pru:
So yoga has actually replaced surfing [inaudible 01:06:06]. We used to love yoga.
Alex:
Yeah, because I can't travel, and I can't surf at the moment. So that's that.
Lauren:
I also read 10 minutes before bedtime. If I don't slow my brain down before I go sleep, it's never good.
Alex:
It's not often good for anyone.
Pru:
Too many ideas are born. All right, now for right now, this is a theoretical question. If you could jump on a plane tomorrow and go anywhere in the world with anyone, where would you go and who would you go with?
Lauren:
I'd probably go with Tasmania. And I know it sounds lame, but I'd take Alex.
Alex:
I've been wanting to go to WA for a very long time. So, I'd probably take a Loz to WA.
Pru:
Well, they're good choices for the moment, guys.
Alex:
Yeah. Well, [crosstalk 01:06:57].
Lauren:
Maybe next year we could go.
Alex:
I think we're going to look locally, don't we? I think that's it.
Pru:
And there's so much here locally as well. I mean, Tasmania is just off the hook. And I think everything they're doing in terms of ... I mean, the national parks are beautiful. I did the Three Capes Track there a couple of weeks ago. It's amazing.
Alex:
Well, [crosstalk 01:07:15]. Yeah, it's stunning, isn't it?
Pru:
Stunning and the food down there. But then, when I went to WA a couple years ago, it's like, I feel like I'm in the real Australia, that really red earth and wild seas and snakes everywhere. It was awesome. So-
Alex:
The outback is so interesting for me, because it's like, there's not much out there but there's something about it that just draws you to it. I don't know what it is. It's a magical kind of place. And not being there previously, I didn't really understand it, but going there, I'm like, okay, I get it now. And then you walk around and it's like, well, there's not much here, but it's amazing.
Pru:
Yeah, such a ... I haven't been there, but I can imagine it's a very spiritual place out there. I got to get there. I will soon because I'm not going anywhere else. Okay, guys, who else would you like to see the interview on the podcast?
Alex:
Are we talking locally or are we talking-
Pru:
It can be anyone these days. We're all online.
Alex:
Have you done, Who Gives a Crap?
Pru:
Yes, I did interview Tim Baxter from Who Gives a Crap.
Alex:
[crosstalk 01:08:25].
Pru:
Pick that one. He was great. Tim, I hope you're listening. Little shout out for you there.
Alex:
I will give two shout outs to very influential businesses for us, that was Who Gives a Crap, because they launched very similar time and very heavy on the giveback aspect which paved the way for us, I think. And then that's something I want to say that these businesses paving the way for other businesses, it's only going to become more and more accepted that people give back and talk about the environment. So it's very important more people do it. But Bellroy, I used to work with the guys at Bellroy and that grave director is actually going to be the best man at my wedding. And be very influential people over at Bellroy. And I know you've done that interview, so-
Lauren:
I feel like everyone on our list is ... you've interviewed them.
Alex:
Yeah, [inaudible 01:09:21].
Lauren:
What a vibe.
Alex:
Snap them up.
Pru:
I do. I have been very, very fortunate and very lucky to talk with some incredible people here. And Andy from Bellroy, he's such a cool guy. And yeah, I loved that interview too. So cool. Well, if any other inspiration-
Alex:
[inaudible 01:09:38].
Lauren:
Yeah, Obed's.
Alex:
Obed's.
Pru:
I could not get Obed. Yeah, I have two [inaudible 01:09:43] of Obed. I can't get them.
Alex:
Yeah. Well, maybe that's what happens when you get [inaudible 01:09:49] valuations.
Lauren:
That was [crosstalk 01:09:53].
Pru:
All right, Obed, it's been laid down. If anyone's listening, that's going to hook up at Obed's, hook me up. All right guys, finally, what is the best way for people to connect with you guys?
Lauren:
At Will & Bear on Instagram or hello Will & Bear via email.
Pru:
Perfect. All right. Well, Alex and Lauren, thank you so much. I couldn't think of any better way to spend a Thursday morning than chatting with you guys. And I really hope that soon we can literally meet on the road somewhere in our van. Thank you.
Lauren:
Us too. Thanks for having us.
Pru:
Yeah, thanks heaps.