Salt Gypsy I Danny Clayton
Conversation with DANNY CLAYTON
Not one to sit on the sidelines, Danny Clayton, created Salt Gypsy, a brand which celebrates the Oceanwoman - surf athleticism, style and diversity in the surfing world. Danny discusses her background which includes a degree in sculpture and experience as a surf instructor as well as, a Billabong distribution rep, a perfect mix when creating an exceptional surf wear brand which is stylish and also made to make the wearer feel good and surf better.
“Do what lights you up. Follow what is exciting.”
New Zealand-born, Byron Bay-based, Danny Clayton, is Founder of Salt Gypsy, a sustainable woman surf company.
Not one to sit on the sidelines, Danny, created a brand which celebrates surf athleticism, style and diversity in the surfing world.
The surf wear brand also has a major focus on sustainable manufacturing. They currently source regenerated nylon for their products which are made out of a two-woman-owned production factory on the Gold Coast.
Danny discusses her background which includes a degree in sculpture and experience as a surf instructor and Billabong distribution rep, so she knows what she’s talking about!
The brand really got some traction after during the surf legging revolution and the product range has just expanded ever since. Today, Salt Gypsy, has a range of stylish surfboards for the discerning oceanwoman, as well as, a huge range of surf tops, tanks and tees.
Ok, let’s dive in.
Mentioned in conversation...
Danny’s story and past adventures that led her to start Salt Gypsy
How their production process is ‘sustainable’
What Danny has achieved and her most recent launch - the Sea Bones Store
How Danny juggles motherhood with running a business
The future of the women’s surf industry
Follow Salt Gypsy here:
Salt Gypsy Website
Salt Gypsy Instagram
Salt Gypsy Facebook
Sea Bones Store
Full Transcript: Danny Clayton, Salt Gypsy
Pru Chapman: Welcome back friends. You're listening to the One Wild Ride podcast, and I'm your host Pru Chapman. Now today my guest is the incredible Danny Clayton, founder of women's surf wear brand, Salt Gypsy. Now listeners, you are in for a treat today. This episode almost defines what One Wild Ride is all about. So before we get going, I want to give you a little bit of context. Danny and I recorded this interview in October, and there was a wild northerly wind blowing in our hometown of Byron Bay, and I'd just been for a swim. The swirl was big, the water was filled with weed and the sand was whipping across the beach. It was wild, windy and all shades of delicious.
Pru Chapman: Now from my swim, I ran straight into the studio, and only a few minutes later Danny arrived. I didn't have time to have a shower, to get changed, so when she walked in I immediately started off with an apology saying something along the lines of, "Sorry, I just got out of the ocean. I think that seaweed is stuck in my forehead and on my hair," and she took one look at me and she just said, "Me too." And it was kind of a moment for me, that here we were two women running our businesses on our terms, barefoot straight out of the ocean, salty skin and just about to lay down a podcast talking about carving our own path, talk about setting the stage.
Pru Chapman: It was a moment that brought me a whole lot of joy actually, because it just confirmed for me that if you follow your joy, and follow your bliss, and you're prepared to do the work, it will absolutely lead you to where you're meant to go. Now, that's the perfect segway into this interview with Danny, the founder of Salt Gypsy, an independent women's surf company based here in Byron Bay. Salt Gypsy are internationally known for their beautiful functional and SPF surf wear for women, and more recently their range of beautiful surfboards, that are fast gaining a cult-like following amongst women in the water.
Pru Chapman: Danny pioneered surf leggings for women, and is dedicated to integrating sustainability through the Salt Gypsy supply chain, using a revolutionary new fabric made from recycled fishing nets and plastic ocean waste. Now, I know that you're going to love this as much as me, as this story is the definition of carving your own path, and what that can lead to if you just follow what feels alive inside for you. All righty, let's get to it.
Pru Chapman: One Wild Ride is the exploration of a more meaningful life, a place where personal adventures collide with good business and positive impact. Here I share real conversations with ordinary humans doing extraordinary things, from activists and entrepreneurs, to sports people and scientists. These are the people that help make our world a better place. There's are stories of positivity, hope, expansion and evolution. These unscripted conversations where we dive deep into their highs and lows, their challenges and their triumphs. I'm Pru Chapman and this is One Wild Ride.
Pru Chapman: Hey Danny, and welcome to the show.
Danny Clayton: Hi. Thank you Pru. Thanks for having me here.
Pru Chapman: An absolute pleasure. Now, you're the founder of Salt Gypsy, a sustainable women's surf company, which I absolutely adore based here in Byron Bay, and a big fan for a long time. Yeah, it's a real treat to have you here, and especially as it starts to warm up in Byron Bay. It's like cracking those 30 degree temperatures.
Danny Clayton: Yes, needing that UPF 50 plus.
Pru Chapman: Exactly. And I'm looking at you, your skin is amazing.
Danny Clayton: Thank you.
Pru Chapman: I think we definitely all need a little bit more of that. Now, I'd love to start us off. There are so many amazing things that you're doing, and particularly in the area of sustainability, which I want to crack into a little bit later, sustainability and manufacturing. I'd love to find out how a Kiwi girl ends up running a surf company here in Byron Bay. Can you take us back to where it all began? Yeah, take us back to New Zealand and when you started surfing.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. I grew up in New Zealand, as you know, two very large islands. I grew up exploring the coastlines, swimming, body surfing, boogie boarding as a kid, endless summers. And then, as a teenager, I had a boyfriend at the time who took me surfing, but I ended up sitting on the beach while him and his friend went surfing and that whole hour I was like, "Stuff this, I'm never sitting on the beach again. That looks way too much fun." And I spent the next few months saving up all my part-time job pocket money, and bought a secondhand shortboard and that was it. So I've been throwing myself into West Coast surf out in New Zealand for 10 to 15 years. And yeah, I've been chasing swells ever since.
Pru Chapman: Amazing. And swell off the coast of New Zealand, it's not small. It's pretty wild out there, isn't it?
Danny Clayton: Yes. Can get quite big and grating out on the West Coast, and that grating sand wind that you're talking about just before, very familiar with that. Yeah, West Coast can get quite big winter storm swells, so that was really good training ground for just constantly and regularly throwing yourself out into the ocean and just battling through. So I wouldn't recommend learning on a shortboard. That took me many years to really learn how to surf, so I'd highly recommend longboard and fast tracking your way down, but it was really good in that it taught me very quickly how to duck dive in the ingest constantly. Yeah. Going out there. So tenacity was one of the key things I think you need.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. Awesome. Actually, a friend of mine that I grew up with, a friend of my dad's I should say that I grew up with, when I started to surf, one of the times I started to surf, multiple times I've started to surf, but that was his biggest piece of advice was just, "Get out there every single day. You've just got to be so consistent with it." And I imagine within some of those big swells, you sure must've been petrified. Or did you just have all of that teenage energy where you were just like, "I'm going at it no matter what?"
Danny Clayton: Probably a mix of both. Yeah, definitely some hedonistic young person, just throwing yourself out there. Yeah, but also a bit of calculated risk taking as well. And I think having grown up around the coast, having always done ocean swimming, and you learn how to read beaches and currents, and obviously rips. Yeah, I think all that ocean safety comes into play, and that's a really integral part of surfing. So I think, yeah, definitely mix of both.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. And you mentioned actually, just we were talking a little bit offline just before we jumped on, that you had a pretty good incredible mom growing up. And so, can you just touch on that? Because I feel like there's this tenaciousness about you, and I'd love to hear a bit more where that comes from.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. As we were saying earlier, so mom had me when she was 18, and separated from my dad when I was about a year old. It was just mom and I for the first six years of my life, and young solo mom in the early 80s, one of my earliest memories was of her standing me in front of the bathroom mirror saying, "Girls can do anything," and repeating that after her. So she really instilled in me a sense that, yeah, just because of my gender, there was no barrier for me to do anything that I would wish to do in life. Yeah, I think that seeing her and how she's evolved as a woman.
Danny Clayton: She's had three more children after me, and we ended up studying at university at the same time at the same university, which was really cool. Now she's a really highly regarded cardiac research specialist nurse. So she's at the top of her field, and just seeing how she managed all of that with four children of the course of her becoming a woman, and from a young age and mother, she's a very massive influence on me.
Pru Chapman: That's amazing, standing you in front of a mirror when you were that young, and telling you you could do anything. Shout out to mom. Amazing. Okay, cool. So you're throwing yourself, you've got a boyfriend and I totally hear you on this. Like, "Can you sit on the beach and take some photos of me." "No, I'm going to get out there and surf myself." So you've thrown yourself in there, you're learning how to surf, what comes next?
Danny Clayton: Yeah. I guess finishing up high school, and I actually ended up spending two years between high school and going to university, and one of those years I was here in Australia, and traveled up the East Coast and worked for Aloha Surf down in Manly actually for a summer, which was really cool. And traveled up the East Coast of Australia, and during that time I really figured out what I would like to study, which was art and design. And so, I moved back to New Zealand and completed a four year degree in design, but I ended up majoring in sculpture. So I kept the broadest pathway that I could, and that actually has ended up forming the backbone of what I've created Salt Gypsy into, or building this business from. And that was during uni with limited student resources.
Danny Clayton: I ended up using recycled window glass panes and reshaping them into new objects, installing those objects in tidelines and snowy mountains around New Zealand, and documenting through film, moving and still image, and then exhibiting the documentation rather than the objects themselves. Now when I look at Salt Gypsy, and how I'm trying to kind of craft it as a look back and craft it as an art project, it's kind of parallel in that I'm installing these, playing with print and color, and light, and water, installed on these beautiful female form in the water and seeing how it all interplays. Yeah, I just quite like that synchronicity between what I studied with what I'm now building a business around. And now that we're using regenerated nylon with our now surf garments, so that's really cool to be able to bring that back in, and using a resource that would otherwise end up in landfill or the oceans, and such as ghost fishing net. That's quite cool.
Pru Chapman: And it's easy now that we're in retrospect to looking back, and you can see how all those things now were really formative in what you do with Salt Gypsy, but at the time when you're a uni student, you never know where this thing could go, do you? It's just like just following that passion, and that enthusiasm, and what feels good. And it's such an amazingly explorative time to ... If there's anyone young that's listening to this, I think they'd be such words of encouragement I'd give to, just using that time at university or in your late teens and early 20s, just to explore all those things. Don't take it too seriously, just really explore your passions. It's like you're finally out of school, and you can just really dive deep into just where your joy is and what brings you joy, and that can be so formative of what will come after that.
Danny Clayton: True. I'm so on the same page, and that's exactly how I look back over my 20s, and the older people I had around me encouraging me to do exactly that. Like, "Do what lights you up, follow what's exciting." And when I was at uni studying sculpture and dad would be like, "Why are you studying ... What's the end goal for a sculpture student?" And I was like, "I don't know dad, but if I can design and sell products that I make, then I'd be happy." And now 10, 15 years later, here I am doing exactly that. Yeah, you just never know where it will lead you, if you're following the things that really light you up. For me at that time, I loved every year of my sculpture degree, and every year got better. So even though I didn't know exactly where it would lead, I just knew that it will all work out. I'm obviously doing what I meant to be doing. Yeah, that was one of my most productive periods of time, was during that and at uni. [crosstalk 00:12:39].
Pru Chapman: Yeah, so incredible. Yeah, definitely just using that time to just explore and have fun, and follow the bliss really, for lack of a better expression. So you come out, you've done this amazing project. What happens after uni?
Danny Clayton: I hit to Japan, and I end up teaching English over there for a couple of years-
Pru Chapman: Naturally.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. So mid 20s, just had an amazing time, with some challenges. I won't lie, there were definitely some cultural differences and had experienced culture shock for the first time. But yeah, it was just such a neat thing to do after uni, and just go explore a bit of the world completely different to where I'd either grown up and stayed.
Pru Chapman: How long were you in Japan for
Danny Clayton: Two and a half years.
Pru Chapman: Oh, wow. So pretty significant.
Danny Clayton: Yeah.
Pru Chapman: Were you surfing while you were there?
Danny Clayton: I was a lot in my second year. And so, I had a little mini Toyota van that had a just fitted a futon mattress in the back and I just been every week, up and down the coast, chasing some typhoons files. Yeah, it was a really cool experience.
Pru Chapman: And sleeping in the back of the van.
Danny Clayton: Sleeping in the back of the van, yeah.
Pru Chapman: Amazing. And when you mentioned some of those culture shocks, does anything spring to mind as one of the biggest challenges? Or was it just walking into a such a different culture with a brand new language? Because I don't imagine you spoke Japanese before you [crosstalk 00:14:08].
Danny Clayton: Well, I'd studied Japanese at high school for a few years, so I had a bit of a language base by the time I arrived, but could not speak fluently, and definitely not conversational. But by the time I left, I could speak in Japanese as we are now, in conversational Japanese. So that was really cool, just personal achievement to be able to have learned a different language. But yeah, cultural shocks, I think one of the biggest things was just the patriarchal system that I experienced, or the patriarchal culture that I experienced over there.
Danny Clayton: Having come from New Zealand and being this independent young woman, a lot of local people that I met just couldn't understand why myself and some of my Western friends were doing that kind of thing. So that was interesting, and at times that was quite challenging, being a Western woman and in Japan. But by and large, I mean, you have some really good times over there, and meet some really neat local crew. Yeah, it was really good fun.
Pru Chapman: Amazing. My cousin actually, he moved to Japan and ended up marrying his Japanese language teacher. A lot of people have a lot of fun doing that. It wasn't necessarily chasing swells, but he was busy elsewhere. Awesome. Okay, so you've been to Japan, then what?
Danny Clayton: So I returned back to New Zealand, kind of a bit of a loose ends to what to do with my life. So I have a degree in sculpture and two years of speaking Japanese, and I wasn't too sure what to do next. And then I think I'd been home maybe a month or a few weeks, and I just had a random message from a friend who I had worked with part-time at a surf shop while we were both studying at uni, and he just said, "Look, there's a job going at Billabong, would you be interested to come and apply?" And so I ended up going off for an interview at Billabong, New Zealand, and landed a job as a sales rep account manager, and then spent the next two years working with a really great team, and selling three of the smaller lifestyle brands that Billabong owned. Yeah, it was a really neat experience and introduction to brand management and marketing, obviously sales and relationship management. Yeah, so two years at Billabong.
Pru Chapman: Awesome. And I imagine there was plenty of travel along with the role at Billabong.
Danny Clayton: Yes, I was a road warrior and-
Pru Chapman: In New Zealand or outside?
Danny Clayton: Mostly in New Zealand. Yeah, so my territory was the Upper North Island. I was just on the road constantly. At first it was super exciting, absolutely loved it, but by the end of the two and a half years there I was like, "It would be really nice to be at home for longer than two week period." Yeah, that definitely started to take a bit of a toll, but it was still really cool to be on the road, and getting to chuck your board in the car when you're doing sales trips. Yeah, sometimes surfing with the retailers that you're selling to. Yeah, it was cool, really neat people, so that was great.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, what an amazing experience. Now, was it while you're at Billabong that you started to kind of come up with the concept of Salt Gypsy? Was it being immersed in that environment, or did it come after?
Danny Clayton: It came after. In March of 2010, I was seeing a guy and had my heart absolutely smashed into a million pieces. In the space of a week, that happened and then I meet this couple. I went away on a girls' surf weekend a week later, and that weekend, I meet this couple who were recently married, were honeymooning around New Zealand. They're an English and California couple, Amy and Rich Kotch. They were just started regaling us with their season, they had just been to surf guides in the Maldives, and that had this amazing romantic like meet, and then were engaged within three months, and married in six months. We were like, "Oh my God, what? Who are these people?"
Pru Chapman: How does this happen?
Danny Clayton: "What do you do? How are you surf guides for a living?" At the end of that week were like, "Danny, we really like you. If we could get you a job on our island, would you come and work at the Water Sport Center?" And I was like, "I don't know." I just immediately shut it down because I thought, no, there's no way I could go live in the tropics and surf these amazing looking break. And so I thought about it for-
Pru Chapman: Too good to be true.
Danny Clayton: Way too good to be true. Like, that shit does not happen to people like me. And then I mold it over and I meet up with them again a couple of weeks later, and they're like, "No seriously, if we can get you work, would you come over?" Yeah, smashed heart still happening in the background, I was like, "You know what? Stuff it. I'll give it a crack, I'll apply." Yeah. Anyway, the least to that long story short, I finally got a job as a snorkel guide and ended up quitting my job at Billabong and hooked it on a one way ticket over to the Mounties, which I'd never really knew where that existed. So I had to Google Map where it was.
Pru Chapman: And thank goodness the Google Maps.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. And all I knew was that there was I was going to be taking people out on snorkel trips, but it was on this island that had a pumping left hander and I'd get to surf on my lunch break. So I was like, cool. I'll try this for a season, and ended up meeting my now fiance and baby daddy that season. So there's something about [crosstalk 00:19:58].
Pru Chapman: Wow. So it's just like they said it was going to be.
Danny Clayton: Totally. It was just a really amazing experience. And I think quite a really strong lesson and just going, stuff it I don't know what's going to come from this opportunity but here is this opportunity that's presented itself to me. I'm going to go for it and see what happens. And so quitting my job and buying a one way ticket was massive. I had no idea what was in store and it just turned out to completely change the course of my life. So yeah, that was one nugget that I learned.
Pru Chapman: That's amazing. And I am so on the same page with that. Just kicking off this season I did a little trailer for season two about telling my story and it was the same kind of thing. It was like I had gotten to a point and I was like, I'm just not feeling fulfilled with where I am and yeah, I didn't know where I was going to go next. But a one way ticket just seemed like almost like the only logical next step. It's like I've got no idea what's next. I know something needs to change. One way ticket and here I go. And it's such a Lesson in just trusting your gut, isn't it?
Danny Clayton: Totally and that thing of ... we were talking about just before about following what's exciting for you and what's that thing that really lights you up and for me it was just going, "Oh, wow, I've always wanted to serve in the tropics for a solid amount of time and to live and work over there would be amazing." So to have this thing come up and then immediately shut it down in my brain and then think about it and then go, "No, don't be ridiculous like of course you can give it a crack, and then yeah, that's it. Just follow what's exciting."
Pru Chapman: Yeah. And so just a little interjection here. I think it's like that power of the subconscious that really always wants to keep us safe. Here's this amazing opportunity, something you said you've always wanted to do, but the subconscious just making sure that you stay safe is like, no, and immediately shut down. And then being able to override almost that automatic programming, and just be like actually why on earth not? What could be on the other side of this plane ticket and for you, a lot of things on the other side. So you're over there, you meet your fiance in that first season, you're doing snorkeling trips. What next?
Danny Clayton: Yeah. So I met Jade and then we headed off but didn't get together until the following year, in the beginning of 2011. And he was actually spending summers and working his Kiwi but he's been living in Australia for a long time. So he was spending time working on the chat about Maltese and then spending summers back here and Byron, actually. So I came over to Byron after I finished up the motive season. We got together and then he'd already signed up to go and work back on the boat for the 2011 season. So I joined him halfway through the year. And yeah, we just signed up again for the 2012 season. So I ended up spinning years working over the year and two of those were on the boat with Jade operating the charters and taking groups of guys surfing basically on teen day trips and living an absolute dream. It was really really cool.
Pru Chapman: Wow, it does sound like a dream come true. And you're able to surf all that time as well.
Danny Clayton: Yep. Part of the job description.
Pru Chapman: Amazing. You'd have to know the good breaks.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, I think so.
Pru Chapman: That would have been really hard to leave. Was it?
Danny Clayton: Yes and no. By the end of the third season for me, I was feeling a bit ... we've just been eight months on a boat living and working with each other but also of like back to back. You don't really get any breaks even though you're surfing on off time or you did maybe 12 hours between new boat trip starting. There wasn't that much downtime. So in a way it was nice to finish up eight months at the end of 2012 and go, cool need a little break. But in terms of like lifestyle going back Jay did another couple of years still working on the boat and we were based in Bali so it was still tropical living but he just go between Bali and Modi. So yeah, that was nice.
Pru Chapman: Beautiful, beautiful. What were you doing in Bali?
Danny Clayton: I had moved us over to Bali and for me to start working surfing yoga retreats and business over the year. And then that didn't work out so well and by this stage, I'd already had this blog that I had started the previous year while working on the boat and it was called Salt Gypsy. And I had already launched kind of the first iteration of my product, which was customizable surf leggings. And so yeah, when the job didn't work out in Bali, I was like, "Well, I've got a handful of gigging sales, and we're living in Bali and I've got this visa, I may as well just launch myself full time into giving this ago and see if I can get this up and running." Which is pretty much the brand you see today is how it all started.
Pru Chapman: Wow. And so just to back up a tiny little bit, I mean surf leggings. This is something new to the industry that wasn't around back then. So where did the idea come from?
Danny Clayton: Yes. 2012 was my third season and working in the Modis and around that time or within the year or two prior to that, there'd been I think three women's surf brands that had started independently by female surfers that were making really cool fashion forward like surf bikinis and rash guards. When I started the blog in 2012, at that time, there was no platform to showcase these cool new Andy labels that had come out. That was from Australia, New Zealand, and then one in the US who still exists. The other three no longer do. And so yeah, because I was working in the tropics surfing every day shooting photos of guests. And so if I was surfing Jade would be shooting me and the guests and if Jade was surfing with the guests, I'd be shooting photos. So I had access to getting photography of myself R&Ding some of this gear, which is what I did.
Danny Clayton: So I was blogging and I was doing review testing on different surf bikinis and some cool rashes, but there was nothing for your legs to cover up. And so because I was becoming increasingly conscious of sun damage, and worst case scenario skin cancers, which coming from Australia, New Zealand is just prolific. I was just getting more and more concerned about covering up from the sun and and just being in the elements all day, every day isn't that comfortable.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, eight months in a row, yeah.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. So during a visa run to Bali, I had a couple of surf leggings made up to my own design and started wearing them in the surf and Jade was able to get some shots, I'd be wearing them so I'd be blogging about them. And there was a really massive swell in July of 2012 and during that swell, there happened to be two other boatloads of female surface on some surf trips, and I had three women on my boat. So this is why I remember the month and the swell is because that was unheard of. I was surfing mostly with dudes, but to have like two other groups of female surfers. All of a sudden they are about 15 or 20 women in a lineup during the swell.
Pru Chapman: Wow.
Danny Clayton: It was amazing. And it was so cool. So the couple of girls that were on my boat chatter obviously got burnt during the first couple of days because that's what happens when we go on holidays to the tropics. So I was like, oh, just check on the leggings and you don't have to worry about sunscreen and you're protecting your sunburn already and blah blah blah. And so the girls started wearing my leggings and the other boatload of girls were seeing my too wearing the leggings and it was one comment that clear came back with who was on my boat chatter saying, "Oh, I've just been yakking to these other girls, and they're like, if Danny had leggings on the boat, she'd have sold out because we're all getting burned and blah, blah, blah." And that was my aha moment and that was my billabong sales rep Brian kicking it and going, "You might have a product here that you can sell." And yeah, so that kind of-
Pru Chapman: So cool. It's like the perfect storm.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, totally. That July swell. Yeah, it was. And so my first challenge though was, so I've been a surf guy for three years by this stage. I have this blog that's been building this fledgling community online and through a Facebook page. But surf guides were generally paid and when. You don't really earn a lot of money. All I had was two pairs of leggings and zero capital. So I was like, "How am I going to launch this thing called surf leggings." And anyway, I came up with the idea of customizable leggings. So it was literally color by number paneled legging template and I just throw it out there at the end of ... when I finished up on the bone in September, I was like, "Would anyone be interested? Here's the kind of design and here the different colors and printed lacquer that you can choose from and you tell me where you want it all to go. And I'll get them made to order." And so I think I received about 20 orders through the blog in the Facebook page and that was it.
Pru Chapman: You were off and selling. Such a smart way to do it as well.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. And now I've read the Lean Startup book. I was like, "Ah, that's what I've done organically and unwittingly the whole time." [crosstalk 00:29:57].
Pru Chapman: I didn't even know this book. I just was the lean startup.
Danny Clayton: Definition of, so that was the first iteration of surf leggings and I've just really relentlessly developed the product ever since and just worked really hard to promote the idea of making surf leggings cool enough that women will want to wear them for some protection but also they're extremely practical. So the flip side of the sun protection and why I wanted to wear them in the Motis was that's 100% Muslim nation so I do not need to be paddling around in a surf bikini that falls off because you generally pretty impractical. So I don't need to be showing more skin than I need to. This is a modest nation and the women dress modestly so I can do that in the water. And it made me feel more comfortable and more confident covering up. They're really handy for multi purpose reasons.
Pru Chapman: Multi purpose [crosstalk 00:31:01] and walk straight into the surfing zone.
Danny Clayton: Exactly, yeah.
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Pru Chapman: Okay, so you'd come with this idea, we'd had the perfect storm and it really was almost like, well, maybe the perfect swell with this combination of all the female surfers converging, which I can just ... the way you tell it and the way that your face lights up that this was something different was happening around here. And so then you get to Bali and you start manufacturing and from what I understand you saw some things there that didn't really sit well within the manufacturing space.
Danny Clayton: Yes. So when we first got to Bali, and I was working at this job and then also literally jumping on a scooter and driving around the streets of Kerobokan and Denpasar trying to find people or factories to make these surf leggings. Slowly over the year or the next couple of years I managed to find a small factory and then move up to a slightly larger factory. And at the same time I started receiving wholesale inquiries so now all of a sudden I had to produce slightly larger quantities and then I was picked up by Urban Outfitters at the US. That was a really amazing experience to go through in terms of suddenly I need to supply 2000 leggings over three drops and now I need a really large factory to work with but also just the whole systems in place of having to have everything polybaged, labeled et cetera. So I think-
Pru Chapman: And that's a huge jump for business to go from small scale production to be taken up by a big company for big distribution. It's a massively business financially, manufacturing, it's big.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. I don't mind talking money, but I think I went from like 20 grand in sales in 2013 150 grand by the end of 2014.
Pru Chapman: Wow.
Danny Clayton: And that was huge and just an example of what can happen when one large fish picks up your brand basically.
Pru Chapman: And it sounds amazing, but also comes with a really huge set of problems or challenges we should say.
Danny Clayton: Challenges, yeah. Totally. And sometimes it's not sustainable and that particular business model changed and we no longer supply them but through that time, it was just such a huge boost in confidence as well as go shit. I've got a commercial product here that some really cool people want to buy, awesome. And so I think it was really the plastic polybags that just started to really get to me plus I was living in Bali. And if anyone's been there, you know pollution is a massive problem and it's so cool to see changes happening there which is great and banning plastic bags et cetera. But for what I was doing within the garment manufacturing industry, I was just following what everyone else was doing in terms of buying packaging everything into these plastic polybags and trying to wholesale and it just didn't sit well.
Danny Clayton: And then I had a bit of a factory blue with the large one that I was working with. And I was like, "This is not the kind of people that I'd like to be working with." The quality just isn't what I want to be putting out into the universe and yeah, the quality of the fabrics. And at that time before the ECONYL, which is now available there, just the quality of fabrics wasn't as good as I knew that we could source elsewhere. And concurrent to that thing happening with my factory, same thing again within a week, I was also part of an organizing group of women who put together the world's first Surf and Social Good Summit that we held out at Bingin which was pretty mind changing in lots of ways but also just solidified my university degree of using recycled materials and the cultural DNA that I have from coming from New Zealand reduce, reuse, recycle.
Danny Clayton: That event and being a part of that and all the talks and amazing people that tuned up for that place and looking at sustainability and surf tourism and just all sorts of topics are covered really made me think, "Well how can I use my small business to be a part of creating a more sustainable change across the industry that I'm involved in which was garment manufacturing." With that happening the same time as the factory problems, just made me handbrake everything, literally handbrake and I was like, I'm not going here. I'm stopping manufacturing until I can restructure my supply chain to be more in line with my personal values. I'm not super stoked with how things are going. And plus two and a half years in Indonesia, I was pretty ready to come back down under and so we move back down to Australia.
Danny Clayton: I was just really doing a lot of research online and reaching out to some people about who could help me with more ethical or ethically certified and trade in terms of manufacturing and where were those factories that I could get into and I was looking still offshore. So looking at China and happen to find some crew on the Gold Coast who would who I was able to sample within. And then in terms of fabrics, what would the best quality sustainable textiles in the marketplace at that time? This is back in 2015. And researching brands like obviously Patagonia being a massive influence and then Kelly Slater's out of known as well. So what TechStars I've been very open source with their-
Pru Chapman: Amazing.
Danny Clayton: ... whole supply chain, which is really cool. So just clicking through and following, tracing down where can i source all these different things. So still a work in progress.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. But definitely a successful work in progress. And it's so nice to hear as well that you did find that open source information and they're willing to share that because from what I understand, in the product industry, people can be very cagey about their contacts and their suppliers and that kind of thing. So you now manufacturer on the Gold Coast?
Danny Clayton: Yes.
Pru Chapman: Did you go anywhere in between or are you straight into the Gold Coast and I'd actually love you to tell us about why you ended up on the Gold Coast and how you chose that because when so many brands and manufacturing offshore these days, because this is definitely a very purposeful decision from you.
Danny Clayton: Yes. It was partly by default, partly by design. I had engaged the services of a production consultant when we first moved back at the end of 2015 to help me with contacts of getting into these amazing factories that seemed to exist that I've never been able to find by myself on the streets of Denpasar. So she was trying to help me with the factory in China and we began sampling with one that came highly recommended, and but at the same time for a faster turnaround, I was also sampling with this smaller factory on the Gold Coast. And then as I was preparing my production order for the factory in China, that context fell through. And because I'd been already sampling and building a relationship with the crew on the Gold Coast, I was like, well, please help-
Pru Chapman: Over to you.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, can you produce 300 units? That's how I got through 2016 and into 2017. And then that particular business unfortunately, something happened and I'm not 100% sure on the story, but was no longer able to produce with them. So just as I launched my Navy Star collection, which went nuts, and I all of a sudden had to find a whole new production team.
Pru Chapman: As a pattern emerging here, Danny.
Danny Clayton: I know. And yeah, so have ended up with this really cool, small, very boutique production crew still on the Gold Coast. And yes, Judy is the main lady and she's amazing and we just love her to bits. So yeah, we're still working with Judy. And by comparison from when I first started, the very first piece of surf leggings cost me $10 to make roughly and now the lack of quadruple as the price by the time, you factor in all of your intangibles and not just a cut and sew but the cost of the fabric which we purchase from the Australian distributor of the Econo stretch fabrics that we use and it's been interesting to see even that change.
Pru Chapman: And it's interesting, I work with a few women who have product based businesses different products to yours obviously and they swim in the middle there early stages in their business and they swim in the middle of, it's more costly to produce onshore, some of them are Kiwi actually and they're looking at onshore because one of them who I'm thinking of in particular, she has manufacturing at the moment over in Turkey and it's definitely, it's cheaper there and it's ethical the way that she's doing it but the language barrier and then the cost to get there and and everything. And so it really I think for peace of mind, when you factor in peace of mind we all just go around the corner and note no Judy's name or whoever's name it is and be able to talk through problems and just that humans to humans doing business again, isn't it? And it might financially cost more, but I think the savings in in peace of mind and mental bandwidth almost outweigh it sometimes.
Danny Clayton: Sometimes, yes. My accounting crew might disagree. And due to forces of trying to survive as a business, I'm looking back into offshore manufacturing to at least help offset some of our local manufacturing costs, but I definitely won't roll out going offshore again. It just comes back Being able to hit minimums and the court all the capital involved and waiting three months for your stock to arrive versus Judy who's up the road who could sometimes punch things out within one to two weeks depending on your quantities. So I think it's an ongoing battle and I think there's a lot of some brands in similar boats.
Danny Clayton: But in terms of being quite proudly Australia made, I'm really stoked to be able to be among a lot of young swim labels that are doing similar whether they're producing in Sydney or Melbourne, or Brisbane. I end from talking to Judy, she's been having a huge resurgence and brands coming back to Australia. So she's been fielding a lot of inquiries on producing for these people who have had similar problems to myself with offshore. It's good to see a bit of a resurgence for Australia manufacturing as well.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. There's so many ingredients in the recipe as well, isn't there? Because I think as you say, you're so values driven and really clear on the values and living them out in your business. And so there's that to be offset with cost to also scale of production, it all fades in. And I think that's definitely a tricky place for product based businesses at the moment also, because of social media, and because of transparency, and because of people wanting to know about the supply chain, and to be as transparent as you can with that. And I think it's wonderful to showcase brands like Salt Gypsy, because you're continually looking at how things can get even better and being transparent about that process as well. And like you say, maybe it does go offshore, maybe it stays here. We need to be a sustainable business as well. But actually having those conversations out loud. It is about also maintaining a sustainable, profitable business. So it's here in five years time.
Danny Clayton: That's exactly right. At the moment, there are times where I cannot draw a wage. So in order for business to survive, I need to have an income. And if I can decrease some expenses and increase revenue and that whole balance then I don't have a sustainable business. So I think that might segue into a different topic around sustainability but what that can mean for different business models, I guess. So sustainability also needs to mean that we can continue to survive and thrive ultimately.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. And it's getting that triangle right. And I think from all the work that I do, I think having meaningful work always comes first. So something that you're really passionate about, but then actually creating a sustainable, profitable business comes next because then that can drive everything else then that drives the way that you're able to treat your people or the way that you're able to think about the planet in your decision making around where you're producing and what you're producing. So it's like, yeah, I totally agree. I think sustainability we've thought about it in an environmental sense, but it also needs to be in a business sense he actual business needs to be sustainable. Because otherwise in five years time, there is no business.
Danny Clayton: Exactly. And then you're unable to do the work.
Pru Chapman: And do all the great stuff.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. Things I love.
Pru Chapman: Love it, love it. Okay, now I'd love to actually ask you a little bit about the regenerated nylon that you use as well. So from Ghost Fishing Nets?
Danny Clayton: Yes, that's one component. And it was through studying out and on and tracing the supply chain, the open source which is amazing, and then I came across the Aquafil group. That's the Italian company that produces the ECONYL yarn. And so this was 2015 that I was finding out about all this amazing takes all that was being created, but they also make carpets using the same regenerated nylon. The nylon waist that goes through this re-polymerization process over at the nylon Slovenia comes from Ghost Fishing Nets and takes all off cuts that would otherwise be in landfill. And what they call this other nylon vice, I think nylon six. So that's all shipped off or it's all gathered from different sources and I think they've partnered with some groups like Healthy Seas and organization to extract the fishing nets from around the Mediterranean and different parts around the world, that all get sent off to Slovenia and the input through that re-polymerization process.
Pru Chapman: That's a hard one to say.
Danny Clayton: And then outcomes this completely regeneration nylon yarn, and I think the idea is to become fully closed loop. So End of Life Textiles, for example swimwear I think they were trialing with Speedo, to take back End of Life Speedo garments and put it back through that process and so in turn it's just becoming this closed loop and ultimately, that's what I would love for us to be able to do is take back our software garments and then ship it off to Slovenia to this amazing mill and have it go back through that process and be remade into new products.
Pru Chapman: Amazing. It's so cool that this is happening out there and that we're actually, we're seeing it, we're wearing it, we're able to be part of it. It's just amazing what's happening.
Danny Clayton: And I think kudos to the Aquafil Group who've made it accessible for small businesses like us, not just for larger companies with greater spending power, so I was able to find out where I could purchase. The nylon that comes from the Aquafil Group is being milled. So it's an Italian stretch fabric that we use. So yeah, I've been able to find the Australian and Hong Kong distributors, for example. To have access to that is huge. And now, large and small swimming surf labels are using the same fabrics and it's very quickly becoming industry standard, which is amazing as it should be.
Pru Chapman: Ethic.
Danny Clayton: Yeah.
Pru Chapman: So good to hear. So amazing. Awesome. Now, on the role of products, you've also got some brand new very sexy products out. New boards, tell us more about those.
Danny Clayton: We have a women's surfboard range, and that's across three board models. We have a longboard and mid length and the twin fin, the shore beard, that's my favorite. And we also have a stand up paddleboard for any woman wanting to cross train or do flat water stand up paddling and it's pretty exciting opportunity that is first market that we know of for this kind of thing. It's a bit of an untested product category, but I was really honored and really excited when the opportunity came up from the surf industries crew that we've partnered with.
Pru Chapman: And like I was just saying offline, it feels like on my Instagram feed, all of my friends. These boards just seem to be popping off everywhere and they're so nice. So anyone listening here if you haven't seen them and they're the Salt Gypsy boards and they just beautiful. I've got my eye on the mid-tide at the moment, classic mid-tide I'm going to pop in-
Danny Clayton: [crosstalk 00:51:29] board.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, I'm going to pop in and test one out. Actually, I'm going to pop into the store. Next segue. Sea Bones store, tell us more. You launched Sea Bones store two years ago, two and a half years ago.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. We started with a pop up shop and it's in partnership with my good friend Ming Nomchong who is a local fashion photographer here.
Pru Chapman: Amazing.
Danny Clayton: She's very, very cool lady and she'd seen what I was doing with Salt Gypsy for a couple of years and and she wanted to have a shop and sell her up her prints and artwork through and yeah, we just decided to do a pop up and December of 2016 and that was really successful. That ended up extending for an extra month so we had two months of the pop up over on fixture straight. And at the end of that because it had had such great feedback and had gone really well, we just ended up finding ourselves with a lace and in an actual shop space and realized, whoa, we're really doing this. Sea Bones opened next Craig Perry's gallery in March 2017.
Pru Chapman: And it's my favorite shop in Byron Bay. And probably because you stock independent, a lot of locally based products, don't you?
Danny Clayton: Yeah, and of those brands, it's been mostly women owned ... well, female designers of the End or local crews. That was quite an important thing as well to have but also wasn't overtly stated it's just that that's just our jam.
Pru Chapman: And you totally get that vibe walking in there. I don't say, "Look all my favorite things are in one place," without knowing that the necessarily independent or necessarily local. They're just exactly like you say. It's just, "Oh yeah, this is just my jam. This is what I found here."
Danny Clayton: That's cool to hear. Thank you.
Pru Chapman: It's really cool. I've had many of fun little purchase from there. It's actually usually the only place I shop, to be really honest, in town. [crosstalk 00:53:30] overwhelmed by Byron Bay Main Street.
Danny Clayton: Yes.
Pru Chapman: So back on the quiet streets. Yeah, definitely. And a big shout out to Ming. I actually did a speaking gig with Ming once. It was super fun.
Danny Clayton: Cool.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, we were talking about ... It was around the corner palm, we have friends around there. I forget what the topic was now. Was it rise? I think it was rise. Anyway, we had lots of fun that morning. Lots of coffee. Lots of fun.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, she's a full legend.
Pru Chapman: Yes. She's great. An amazing photographer as well. Absolutely. Amazing. Okay, now something else I wanted to tap into was you have a small human.
Danny Clayton: Yes.
Pru Chapman: How's that change things for you? I'm actually always, to be honest, mind blown when women have children and run businesses. I'm just like, "I can barely feed my dog." How do you keep a small human alive, and a business alive? I mean, how's life changed for you?
Danny Clayton: He is just the bee's knees, like every day is a joy. We were the same before and he's just the light for us. So we absolutely adore him and I don't know ... I think I see the, how do you keep all the balls in the air? I don't think I do, to be completely honest. Yeah, there's definitely regular meltdowns with two businesses and baby, and all our family back in New Zealand as well. That's definitely one thing that I've very keenly missed being over here, and having a child is just that family support network. Yeah, but then on the flip side, there are lots of women that I've met with kids around the same age, and we're all in the same boat. There's so many people who live up in this region, who didn't grow up here. And so, that's quite cool to have connected with some really amazing, strong, talented, intelligent women who are doing the same thing, and juggling lots of balls in the air as well. Yeah, there's a cool little grommet get like, all pockets are lots of cool grammar gangs around.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. And I guess if you're juggling just to make sure that you catch the important balls, really.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, like a baby.
Pru Chapman: The other ones ... Right away. I guess it the world sort of doing in business, aren't we?
Danny Clayton: Exactly.
Pru Chapman: Just trying to catch the important one.
Danny Clayton: Yeah, that's exactly ... I guess, having Oscar has just really helped laser focus in on what you really need to be focusing in on, and at the end of the day, they are the most important thing and you're responsible for their well being, so that trumps everything.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, before we wind up, latest segues here is just the future of the women's surf industry. You've been surfing for quite a while now, and having that kind of segue into Billabong, which is huge in the surf industry within always just going like the complete other end of the spectrum, to starting your own brand and label. Also, something that I've really noticed about Salt Gypsy is just, you really champions of athleticism and also creative collaboration, which I absolutely love. I mean, what would you like to see the future of women surf look like?
Danny Clayton: That's an awesome question. Because I think it's a very, very exciting time for women surf culture and surf industry. Yeah, I think one of the key things that I felt when I was working at Billabong was working overtime in this company, and just feeling like a really small cog in this giant machine. And it just made me think, what could I achieve if I worked this hard for something I was really passionate about? And turns out, I'm really passionate about skin tight lycra fabrics, and looking cool in the lineup, but also women in surf culture and women in surf businesses, of which there's more and more popping up. Yeah, I would really love to see a really supportive women surf industry. I'd love to see financial investment in the women's surf industry.
Danny Clayton: I think our partnership with GSI, and our surfboards is a really great example of a successful company. Seeing the potential and the opportunity that exists for women, who are out there doing things for ourselves, because we couldn't find anything in the marketplace. Yeah, there are some really neat examples of other women like myself, who have started up either a small surf brand or like Maria with Atmosea, and her wetsuits. There's just so many examples now. And so, I think it's a very exciting time, and I think we've really got the power to shape this thing, how we'd like to ... and I think it can be done collaboratively. I would always much prefer to say collaboration over competition. So how can we do that in a healthy way that benefits everyone for a greater goal, which is having a really thriving women's culture.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. I love that. I 100% agree with you. I think collaboration all the way, and sometimes in business, I think it can be nice to see an industry go a certain way, like almost to not be the front runner. So it's kind of like the men surf industry has been the front runner for so long, but also just to see like, what's working there and what's not working there? And how can we actually take this and do it differently?
Danny Clayton: Yes. Yeah. And I think there's definitely room for leaders to be cultivated within that space, and if anything, to help inspire and rise up the talent coming up behind us, and the younger crowd coming up. So I know for myself, when I was in my teens and early 20s as a young woman, finding and kind of crafting my whole identity around surfing, it looks very different to what it does. Women's surfing looks very different now to what it did back then. So if there are examples of female surf leaders, not necessarily within the competitive space, but women who are crafting lifestyles and creating businesses around the surf lifestyle, then I want to know who those people are, and I want to learn from them, and I want to find out how they did it, and how I can do the same. Yeah, I think it's a really cool time.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, I 100% agree. And I think we're just like right in the epicenter of what it feels like here in Byron Bay. [crosstalk 01:00:10].
Danny Clayton: Yes, it's such a unique hub. I think we've got the climate and the waves, and we've got such an international mix of women of all sorts of ages and abilities coming here. Yeah, it's a very unique spot to be. Yeah, I think Byron's a really great region for that, and hopefully, it'll just keep flourishing.
Pru Chapman: Yeah. And it feels like I was describing it to someone yesterday. It feels like still a small town like country town values, but on an international stage.
Danny Clayton: Totally.
Pru Chapman: It just got so much creativity here, and so many brains here, and so much big thinking that happens here, but everyone still knocks up at 4:00 and goes for a surf.
Danny Clayton: Yeah. Well, I guess without jellyfish seaweed, [inaudible 01:00:54] ocean swim in the ... Yeah. [inaudible 01:00:57] goggles.
Pru Chapman: We should mention that, because you guys can't see us here on the podcast. But yeah, literally Danny walked in. I'm like, "I've just come out of the ocean. I've probably got all these like little jelly bits on my face." She's like, "Oh no, me too." We were there both for it. This is how we do business, and it still gets done, right?
Danny Clayton: Yeah.
Pru Chapman: Probably better I think as well. Awesome. All right. Well, to wrap this up Danny, I'm going to ask you a couple of rapid fire questions.
Danny Clayton: Yes.
Pru Chapman: So straight off the bat to your coffee.
Danny Clayton: Flat white, double shot, all the way.
Pru Chapman: All the way. Fate or free will?
Danny Clayton: Free will. We have the power.
Pru Chapman: Love it. Do you have any kick ass daily habits in place?
Danny Clayton: Well, aside from my double shot, flat white-
Pru Chapman: [inaudible 01:01:42].
Danny Clayton: Yeah. Now that it's warming up and we're out of coldness of winter, yeah, definitely an ocean dip if at all possible. Yeah. And maybe just checking in with yourself and just have a little, "I've got this moment."`
Pru Chapman: I love that. If you could jump on a plane tomorrow and go anywhere in the world with anyone, where would you go and who would you go with?
Danny Clayton: I would probably take Jade my partner and my boy Oscar straight back to the Maldives, and go and introduce Oscar to our local family crew over there, and just go back on another boat trip because they're really cool fun.
Pru Chapman: Just probably less than eight months or something. Awesome. Who else would you like to see me interview on the podcast?
Danny Clayton: That's a really great question. Magnum Chong might spring to mind. She's a bit of a master, few fingers in a few pies.
Pru Chapman: Yeah, I think that's the second request for you Ming. So if you're listening, get on in the air-
Danny Clayton: Watch this pace.
Pru Chapman: And then finally, Danny, how can people connect with you and Salt Gypsy?
Danny Clayton: Sure. So you can email, hello@saltgypsy.com or via DM on Instagram, we're just Salt Gypsy, S-A-L-T G-Y-P-S-Y.
Pru Chapman: Awesome. Perfect Danny, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been incredible to hear your story, and just the way that you're pioneering and championing the women's surf industry. It's very, very cool. So thank you so much.
Danny Clayton: No, I'm really honored to be here. Thank you for having me.
Pru Chapman: Thank you.
Pru Chapman: To wrap up, I want to say a huge thank you to Costa Ray for the tunes, Animal Ventura for recording and production, to the people of the Bundjalung anaation, from the country where this podcast is produced, and to you our incredible listeners. As always, the conversation continues over on Instagram, so be sure to follow along over @pruchapman. That's P-R-U Chapman. So meet me over there now, and I'll see you right back here next week.