Patagonia | Dane O'Shanassy
Conversation with Dane O'Shannessy
Patagonia have always aimed to build the best product, without causing unnecessary harm to the environment. Their mission statement today is going a step further “we’re in business to save our home planet.”
This is a company that understands the environmental urgency and is diving straight in with various strategies to help fix the planet. This includes raising awareness through environmental documentary making, regenerative agriculture and strong support of grassroots organisations. As well as, embarking on retail campaigns like “Buy Less” which aims to encourage resale of second hand items on eBay and Patagonia’s website, emphasising the durability and timeless elements of each item.
We talked to Patagonia’s Country Director of Australia/NZ/and SE Asia, Dane O'Shanassy about the global retailers core purpose, leadership and management that have led Patagonia to success.
“In countries where fresh and clean water is scarce and should be prioritised for drinking - it was washing fast fashion clothing… One of the first things we invested in was TERSUS,.. a waterless laundry machine that uses carbon dioxide to dry clothes.”
Patagonia is the pinnacle of good business. Their dedication to creating the best product with minimal harm, and using business as a force for good has been the guiding light not only for the company's 50 year history, but also for the new wave of entrepreneurs driven to harness the potential business has to make radical change.
Patagonia are an activist company, and now go well beyond making outdoor apparel, they are dedicated to raising environmental awareness through documentary making, regenerative agriculture, and strong support of grassroots organisations that fight to keep our planet wild.
They use business as a force for good, to inspire and implement solutions to the environmental crisis - and have recently updated their 50 year old mission statement to reflect that.
The new mission statement “we’re in business to save our home planet” leaves no questions about the urgency and determined dedication that Patagonia are throwing behind their broad efforts to protect our planet.
Patagonia’s environmental consciousness and high quality product range approach have definitely paid off. Revenue has doubled since 2008 and the firm has expanded, to over 100 global retail outlets.
In this interview Pru was joined by the Patagonia Country Director of Australia/NZ/and SE Asia, Dane O'Shannessy. They took a deep dive into the inner workings of Patagonia including how they stay true to their core, continue to push boundaries and ensure that both social and environmental issues stay at the heart of the Patagonia journey.
Mentioned in conversation…
Patagonia’s activism, where it comes from, the leadership and culture required to continually push the boundaries
Dane’s personal journey during the early years of Patagonia
Key milestones, such as, ‘Don’t Buy This Jacket’ campaign
Patagonia’s strong focus internally on what’s right for the people inside the company
Follow Patagonia AU here:
Full Podcast Transcript - Dane O'ShanAssy, Patagonia
Pru:
Hey, Dane, and welcome to the show.
Dane:
Thanks for having me.
Pru:
What an absolute treat. I'm thrilled that you're here. All our listeners know what a huge fan of Patagonia I am. And in fact, even when the word Patagonia is mentioned amongst my family and friends, everyone immediately looks to me as if I'm this brand advocate that is just has something positive to say about Patagonia. So it's a real treat to have you on here. And I wanted to dive right into the deep end with you, and really get things started right, because the thing I wanted to talk about, first of all, was just busting this myth that doing good for the environment and commercial success are mutually exclusive. I think Patagonia is the ultimate evidence that that's just not true. And while, the environmental focus might come and add an additional manufacturing costs, I think it's far outweighed by the huge range of benefits, right?
Dane:
Absolutely agree. And I’d flip that to say, you know, we often say at Patagonia, we do need to be in business to make a difference. So there is a constant tension between building a responsible business, building products with the least harm that we possibly can, and communicating them to our customers. They can kind of see what we're putting into things and hopefully buy into that. And in some cases, it can feel like you're spending a little bit more money. As you said, it's a bit more of a manufacturing cost, or, in some cases, paying more to the people who are making the goods and providing the services. But I think when you can help connect people with those things, it's a recipe for success.
Pru:
Yeah, absolutely. And something Patagonia has just gotten right from the start, which I'd love to talk about more, and not really just from the start, but even in the everyday. I mean, just every time you walk into a store, it's tangible, the passion that your people and your customers have heard as well. So I wanted to kind of start off with... also, you've recently updated the mission statement at Patagonia. And it's got an even bolder approach to environmental protection. So can you talk us through that change and kind of what it means for a company that's as significant as Patagonia now?
Dane:
Sure. First what I'll say is, I've never worked anywhere where the mission statement actually played such an active role in our day-to-day decision making, as it has here for me at Patagonia. Usually, the mission statement is the result of senior management going on a retreat somewhere. And then the big poster being on the wall of the tea room, at the back of the annual general report, sort of documentation. But at Patagonia it's a real decision matrix, it's a real kind of moral compass for us to kind of check ourselves on how we're making decisions.
Dane:
And that happens with decisions big and small. And this mission statement is we're in business to save our own planet, which is pretty bold, and it's a bit of a evolution from our old mission statement, which was, Build the best product, cause no unnecessary harm and use business to inspire and implement solutions to the environmental crisis. That last mission statement was a mouthful, it had a lot in it.
Dane:
Because we used itself and because we refer to it, it was a real anchor for us, in fact, to know why and how we did our business. So the change came, we kind of got this email, and they were saying, "However, about that mission statement, we'll talk about it in a month or so, but off you go." And so, we all went through a period of grief thinking about what was lost with the old one. And over that time, really found our own level in granting in the new mission statement.
Dane:
And the new one we feel is so much more urgent than where we've been in the past. Our business is broadening in its remit. We started a food business, we've got an impact investment business, we changed how we do own core businesses making outdoor apparel. And I think the mission statement that Yvon and the leaders of our business crafted, really wants to set the agenda to move faster and think bigger and more broadly.
Pru:
Yeah, I think it really does bring that home, doesn't it? The speed of it, and also the urgency, as you mentioned. The whole mission statement, it was so great. We referenced it so many times, when we were doing a lot of education for entrepreneurs. And it did say so much. It was a mouthful, but we loved it. But really this new one, I mean, it's bigger, it's bolder, it's grander, and it has that sense of urgency. Like, we need to stop messing around, the time is now to really change what we're doing.
Dane:
Yeah, and it specifically says we're in business. I think the Chouinards many years ago probably could have sold their business and turned all of their wealth into philanthropy, which is wonderful stuff that other people do. But I think they recognized through that kind of process that I could have a bigger impact with the businesses a tool of that change. So often kind of draw people to that little piece of the puzzle, which is like when you're in business, you have a lot of influence, not just with your customers, not just with your own impact, but as part of an industry, as part of a network, and as part of a bigger fabric than you might as an individual.
Pru:
Absolutely great. And I think we're seeing a real surge at the moment in business being used as a force for good. It's almost becoming a cliche as we're saying it, but it's so wonderful, because I think, charities have their own red tape, and a lot of bureaucracy to get through, our governments are slow to act. But business is so fast and so agile, as you just mentioned, a mission statement can be changed really quickly and rolled out through a company.
Pru:
And it's not just as you say inside with our staff and with our customers, but also through supply chains, through community, through activism. There's so many broad, sweeping touch points that business can have. And it's a powerful tool that we can use these days.
Dane:
I agree, and I think it feels now more than ever, that the moral vacuum, or the ethical dilemma that I think business and corporations have tussled with over the last 50 years since this unrelenting pursuit of growth, with no concern for any other environmental social factors. We're reconnecting with, I think, what is pretty long-standing in human histories, which is, thinking about the whole community, not just the wealth of a few. And I think that's really interesting, because you’ve only got to go back to your parents or your grandparents generation where there was much more of a moral foundation in business, products were designed to be useful, not just to be sold. And I think purpose-led businesses really just at the front end of that curve, and is people reconnecting with old values.
Pru:
I love that. And their businesses came about to provide the solution to a particular problem, I could say it too. So I think that's incredibly powerful. And also, I feel that we're changing the metrics of success as well, you know, the kind of growth trajectory that a lot of businesses have been on, as you say, 70s, 80s, 80s and 90s, in particular, where growth was all about revenue. Now we're seeing sort of a more broadened approach to what metrics for success actually are. You know, are we taking care of our environment? Are we nourishing our community? Are we ensuring that our suppliers and our supply chain is doing the best for the people involved?
Dane:
What's fantastic about that is I think, customers are demanding it. I often rattle off to people that when I started at Patagonia, so nearly 10 years ago, environmentalism or sustainability in business was really niche. And I was saying that only those who can afford to, chose to be part of it. I think we've been through a transition phase where, that idea of sustainability became about, “I better do something”. So part of my role in the business is avoiding risk, reputational risk, given the advent of social media and the people's access to information through far more quickly.
Dane:
But I think that's kind of gone to another change now. And my observation is that this is now becoming an important opportunity for business. And those who aren't acknowledging that and saying that, they're going to be left behind, they're going to be the ones wondering why their whole business model isn't as attractive as where many others have moved on to.
Pru:
Absolutely. And it just makes sense, because it is speaking to that part of us that's innately human that wants to look after each other, wants to look after the planet and our environments and our families. And if business can values match that opportunity, then there is huge opportunity in it.
Dane:
Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm lucky to work here.
Pru:
Indeed, I've often sat at my kitchen table here thinking, "Could I just go over to Patagonia?" I mean, I run my own gig, but so it's always on the edge of my mind. Now, one thing I love about Patagonia, which we all love is that Patagonia has always pushed the boundaries. So I kind of wanted to ask you being on the inside, where does that come from? Does it come from leadership? Does it come from culture? This kind of relentless activist drive that Patagonia has, where does it spur from and how do you maintain it?
Dane:
Well, I think, that's a pretty big question in the company's 50 years of history. But I love to think back to some of the stories I've heard around the earliest days of the company. And the company started as a blacksmith shop, and Yvon, who was a famous climbing pioneer in America, he was basically making and innovating his own in blackyard climbing hardware. You know, pitons and axes and hammers and things of that nature.
Dane:
I mean, I think there's a great story early on, where one year, they used to climb mountains with these high end pitons that you'd hammer into a crack in the rock and you'd leave it there and it would knock a bit of rock out and off you go. And the next person would come along and they'd say, then maybe I'll reuse it. Yvon and some of his early colleagues felt that, as they climbed in that way, they were damaging nature and leaving it different for the next person to come behind them.
Dane:
So they designed a new innovative aluminium chock that you can wage inside a crack. But you can take it out again, you can reuse it, instead of leaving it behind. And you left the rock face the way she found it. What was interesting is that new aluminium piton or chock cost 10 times what the iron chock did. Still they decided that they were going to make this change in the business. And it was a really bold, courageous change, which could have put them out of business.
Dane:
But in fact, what it led to is a renaissance revolution in climbing equipment. And the whole business within 12 months, was purely focused on this new category. And I share that little story because there's a number of other stories or the history of the company where the company has taken a bold business decision, which is both based on a tenant of quality, making things that can be reused, thinking about its impact in the journey, and kind of asking our customers to come along with us.
Dane:
And I think over time, as we made those choices, in the long run, it's always worked out for the better. It can feel more expensive in the short term, but it often is the source of that deep loyalty and passion for the brand. And I think that's where a lot of this courage comes from, for the company to do things that other companies are just too risk adverse to do. What keeps that going though is our culture. And it's an amazing culture at Patagonia which is really led by our people.
Dane:
Yvon has never worked in the company in any sort of executive top position. He jokes that his MBA is actually the management by absence. He's often away, surfing or fly fishing, climbing and basically going in and doing the things he loves, coming back and just being part of the team from time to time in various points of the projects. So I think, yeah, what he's been able to do is hire like-minded people, hire his friends, hire people who see the world through a similar lens, shared values, and then trust people to come to their own conclusions and do things their own way.
Pru:
Yeah, incredible. And that's something I want to dive into a little bit later as well is this 50 year history that Patagonia has, because it's maybe felt step by step along the way, but now just provides this incredible breadth of evidence based practice as well. Not only for the amazing products that are put out and the activism, but also for that decision making piece, and being able to kind of look back and reflect and know that doing the right thing is going to be the right thing.
Dane:
Yeah. It is a mission driven company. And I think it's been that long before mission driven was a real buzz word. And obviously, I think to be honest, the right thing to do can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So yeah, we do take our time hiring. It's really important for us to build a collective of like-minded people. Not people who are amateurs, or sitting in an echo chamber or thinking the same thing, but really share a passion for the planet, and need to protect it, but often enjoy the sports in which we make our products for, people who appreciate quality, and certainly conduct themselves with honesty and integrity. So I think when you have those things brought together, you can end up with a fairly diverse and eclectic bunch of people. But yeah, when they're all moving in the same direction, things can get really right.
Pru:
Exactly. Well, that provides us a beautiful segue into my next question, which is, hearing a little bit about you. So you're the country director for Patagonia for Australia, New Zealand and Southeast Asia. So Dane, I'd love to hear a little bit about your background and how you came into the role.
Dane:
Well, I'm lucky enough to live down in Bells Beach in Torquay. I grew up here for most of my childhood, apart from a stint in Central Queensland, and went to university down here in Geelong which is 15 minute drive from Torquay. Trying to be a journalist, then trying to be a primary school teacher and then after finishing University, I went off and got a job at a local business called Rip Curl which is a surf company. I was lucky enough to spend nearly 12 years there working through a bunch of different jobs. It's one of the hallmarks, it has a real fingerprint on Torquay.
Dane:
Rip Curl is where I started I was lucky enough to get to work with great people, great products and see a great Australian brand and go through a really amazing period. However, anything that you do for too long, no matter what it is, can get a little old. So, towards the end of my time there, I went back to uni, for a second time and studied business and tried to learn a little bit more about how the world of business was run.
Dane:
Through that kind of coursework, I decided that I needed to change and quit my job. And as many people do, when you're in business school and quit your job, you quickly print a business card and pretend that you're now an entrepreneur and a consultant, and luckily I have many good friends who threw me some projects and work to keep things going.
Dane:
But it was through that time, which I really figured out what I wanted to work on and what I didn't want to do. I had some jobs with big retailers, I had some jobs with small start-up brands. And I realised that I did my best work when I work with products that I loved and used, and with businesses and people that I admired. So that led me back here to Torquay. Like I said, I like to live down here, my wife's got a successful business in Torquay. Around about that time we had our first child.
Dane:
I'm so grateful for the year that I took to be a stay at home dad and spend it with James. While, Melissa, my wife was back building her business. And then really good luck and good timing just put me in the right place at the right time to do a project, a marketing project, in fact, with Patagonia, who were based here in Torquay.
Dane:
And at the time, it was just starting up, and we were about seven or eight people in the office. And yeah, I mean, once we got in there, marketing was the first job, there was some other great things to get into and it was such a great brand. It was just a matter of time before you knew success was on the horizon for it. So I often put it down to this, good luck, good timing, and hard work has gotten me to where I am at the company today.
Pru:
Incredible. And it sounds like Torquay is such a great stomping ground for these really epic surf businesses in particular. I had a chat with Andy recently of Bellroy. I've got to get down there.
Dane:
It's a great place. I was born down here too. And I think it's one of those places where despite it being a small town, and it is a small town is an amazing pool of talent. So you can get great employees, people who surf want to move here. And if you don't mind the cold, you can last here. It's close to the mountains, you can get up for skiing and lots of stuff. So it's a really great part of the world.
Pru:
I feel like we've got it. It's similar. Isn't it?
Dane:
It is. Then you definitely get more tourists for that reason, I think.
Pru:
Yeah. Which I think... I don't know, we might see a bit of a migration of people from Byron Bay to Torquay. I mean, my father is Brazilian, so he just will not handle the cold down there. Otherwise, I think I'd be looking in your direction. That's for sure.
Pru:
Yeah. Now, I have heard you describe previously Dane that, when you first arrived at Patagonia, it was still sort of finding its feet a little bit in Australia. Can you talk us through what you meant by that?
Dane:
Yeah, I think, it's a brand that makes great products. It's a brand that is complex. We do our best marketing when we help our customers and new customers get curious about the brand. There's books written about our values about our stories. And I think it's a lot to deliver in one mouthful. And when I first arrived, I think, it was just at that starting point where we were trying to fit it all in. We had some stores, we had a lot of products, it was very much kind of taking a US sort of centric model and kind of plunking in here in Australia.
Dane:
And we sat down and just said, "Well, what's working, what's not working?" One of the biggest opportunities that we saw was... although some of the stories or some of the products, in fact, might not be suited to the Australian market. The values certainly were. And I think America and Australia share many common values about the environment and we've got a very common culture, many differences, but many similarities. So instead of trying to just take the stories carte blanche, and copy one for one, we really started to take an inspiration from what was happening elsewhere around the world with the brand and try to find an Australian context for it. That led to our first ever environmental grant in Australia, I think back in 2014.
Dane:
At the time, we made one grant and $5,000. I think last year, cumulatively since then we've given away over a million dollars to grassroots not for profits in the environmental sector here in Australia. So we sort of found these things that we think is winning the support, respect and loyalty of people in Australia, which is like, let's be Patagonia in Australia, not just selling Patagonia in Australia.
Pru:
I love that. And you've hit the nail on the head, really, because Australians love to be Australian. As much as Patagonia is a great brand in the US, it's very few Australians that want to be American.
Dane:
If we do look for more similarities there certainly there, but you're right, people don't want to hear an American accent. Yeah, they want to hear Australian's voice, and we've got many, many great things happening down here. And so it wasn't that hard to tap in to that side of what's happening there as well.
Pru:
Yeah, and particularly with all the activism work that Patagonia does as well, imagine the people of Australia want to see that wonderful work, the grants going to the grassroots organizations here in Australia. So I guess that leads me into the question then is, how do you decide I mean, from an Australian arm, how do you decide which areas of activism or which issues to focus on here?
Dane:
Well, certainly a lot of it starts with our grant making. When we give a grant to a small group, we spend a lot of time understanding their project, getting to know the people who are involved. Often it's round one of our stores, or one of our dealers, or a sport community in whom we serve. So we already start with the ingredients, we think that are really sticky for people that ultimately will engage with us on a broader level. And I guess, it's not really something that, I just decided we've got a great team of people that are all working really hard in support of our environmental not for profit community, but that also kind of tipples over into what action the company's going to do.
Dane:
And the company acknowledges that our environmental work can be somewhere most potent. I hesitate to call it marketing, but when you're doing good stuff, and people find out about it, people want to be part of it. And I think, that's the way I see our environmental work here or actually all around the world. We do make great products, and we want to tell people about that. We often talk about what goes into our products, what we leave out of our products, certainly, they must be fit for purpose. But what the company does with its resulting success, with its wealth, and with its influence in support of environmental causes, through our storytelling, filmmaking, through our movement building, I think is one of the things I'm most proud of.
Pru:
Yeah, I love that. That's interesting. So I was just in the Byron Bay store the other day, and I was talking to Silas, who's the store manager there. And he just said, "We never sell anything. We just tell stories, we tell great stories." And it was just such a testament to the brilliant work that Patagonia does and the way that you do it. And you hesitate to say the word marketing there, but marketing is telling stories.
Dane:
Exactly. And I think that it's been misappropriated by many in the past, I think that's... I was just having conversation with someone this morning at the school carpark dropping off the kids and she's like, "Oh, I'd love to talk to you about what Patagonia does." And I was like, "Well, really assess what we do, rather than working our way back from what will be a catchy story. Yeah. So if you're doing something good, it's authentic, and it's genuine, people see that, people will reward that. I think if you're starting with “everyone look, we're doing that”, you're probably already starting from a pretty weak place.
Pru:
And I remember actually reading, one of my... well my favorite book actually, is Let My People Go Surfing. And there's a section in there, which addresses PR and Yvon says in there, "We don't blow our trumpet often, but if we do something, we're going to tell the world about it." And I really like that approach as well. It's like, if we're doing good, of course, we'll talk about it. But we don't just make noise for the sake of making noise.
Dane:
Yeah, Yvon used to just call that, referral marketing. You doing something good enough that people will tell their friends about. And I think Patagonia has been doing that from the start. You're selling to your friends, which ultimately, I guess the business started to do, you hold yourself to higher account on why and how you're doing it. So yeah, it's an interesting dichotomy here at Patagonia, the way it's sort of, over 50 years found itself into a really complex, interesting and influential organization.
Pru:
Yeah. And to that storytelling point, I remember I bought my dad a shirt for Christmas as he gets all his shirts now. And I was told it's made from plastic bottles, and this was a great story. And it had more of a story to that than obviously. And then I told my dad when I go to him, and then I actually overheard him telling one of his friends about it the other day as well. And I just think that is the power of story. And the power of doing something good as well. So doing the right thing and then having the language in the story to communicate it.
Dane:
Yeah. And I think you got to earn that. One of the other things I noticed most when I started here was the company's transparency. And I think that is actually unusual, it's really easy to say that, but it's really hard for companies to demonstrate that sort of radical commitment to saying, "This is what we are good at. And here's what we're doing to improve," because it holds you accountable, and creates a relationship with the customer, which is one that's more than just transactional. One that's more than just based on price and goods or services delivered. But that is the equity, that is the loyalty.
Pru:
Yeah, and that's a great segue, actually into the next thing that I wanted to touch on, which is really the history and the foundations of Patagonia, because a lot of the listeners of this podcast are business owners themselves, they're passionate about using business as a force for good. But when you're in... whether you're just starting out, or you're in the early stages, it can be really overwhelming to know where to start. When you're starting to look at your supply chain, or look at your marketing, make sure that your PR is ethical, all of these things, it can be really overwhelming. And especially when those smaller startup companies are looking at someone like or a company like Patagonia, which just does so much good and so much right, but also maybe forgetting that this is a 50 year old company. And all of this doesn't happen overnight. So I guess, kind of touching in on what did Patagonia get right from the start?
Dane:
It's hard to compare with a 50 year old business if you're just starting out, but I think you have the benefit of learning from others in that capacity. And when I think about where a lot of people get to start from today, environmentalism wasn't probably even a term back when Patagonia started 50 years ago. So what did we get right from the start? I think, the tenants of environmentalism were really present from the very start. This idea of quality, making things last a long time, because that was not just the right thing to do for the customer, because I think quality conveys its value.
Dane:
But over time, we found that's actually the best thing that we can do for the planet is catch that pre-landfill. So we should repair, we should do whatever we can to make our goods last as long as possible. So I think that's been something that really stuck with me is something happened right from the start. Vincent Stanley who's actually, one of our older serving employees is Yvon Chouinard's nephew. And I think, the story goes that he incidentally got the job, because he was the only one who didn't surf and could stay back and answer the phone when surfers go to the blacksmith shop.
Dane:
In the early days, our friends were our customers. I think I said that before, but this idea of like, when you are selling stuff to your friends and things that you are using in life or death situations, yeah, there's a real kind of sense of ownership over that, you know, what you're delivering to the customer. Although It has grown a little bit over 50 years, I think the company is still making products for its employees, our friends, ourselves as much as we do out there people buying them. So that's a really high bar, under which to help things.
Dane:
And the last one, I guess, it wasn't right from the start. But I think as the company grew, and the Chouinards really were able to think more of that, and a little bit more philosophically about their business in the world, and suddenly it was thinking about how a business can be a force for good, not just something that is extracted from the community and all the resources, and which is good to me. And one of my favorite things about the company is, that we have an earth tax. We're a founding member of an organization called 1% of the Planet.
Dane:
This is such a grounding in a simple way. Often so, when people say, "Well, how can I start out?" And I say, "Well become a B Corp, or commit to 1% of the Planet." And 1% of the Planet as a notion is saying, I will give 1% of all of my sales and not my profit, but my revenue as a business to grassroots environmentalism. And if your business is making $100 and your commitment to dollar, if it's a billion dollars, and it's a hell of a lot more than that. But it's scalable, it's simple. It's something that your customers can understand. It's third-party certifiable. So you don't need to ask people to trust you that you're doing the right thing.
Dane:
You can say, "Look, I'm verifying, this is something that I'm putting my brand out there in a really transparent way to do the right thing." So I've always felt... I look back at one... a big pivotal decision moment, that decision to not just commit to this 1% of the Planet, but to acknowledge that to create a structure which helped us to account for that was a really powerful idea.
Pru:
Yeah, I were actually a member for 1% for the Planet as well and have been for mostly, I don't know, five or six years now. So I love as you say, the simplicity of it, it's easy to understand, it's easy to administer as a business owner, it's easy to understand as a customer, or as a member of the general public. And it makes real difference as well, that 1% that is going to grassroots organizations and for our listeners as well, this is really born of the fact that, as business owners we're quite often tied up in business, and don't have time to be on the front lines, or doing that grassroots activism work ourselves. And so this is one way that we can contribute to it. So I think it's an absolutely fantastic model for businesses to give back.
Pru:
And actually, I must admit, when there's days that I feel definitely... hopeless wouldn't be the word, but when I think, "Ah, it's a big mission ahead of us." I actually have this vision in my mind that just thinks, what if every business on the planet gave 1% of their profit to grassroots organizations? And just the hope that that feels newly, but that's actually a possibility out there, through this really simple structure. I love it.
Dane:
And what's awesome about it is you decide where the money's going. At Patagonia, we give that money away through our employee led grant councils. All the money that we've given away here in Australia has been done by our employees. So they feel deeply connected to those core values of the company. And yeah, very tangible outcome for that. Since we started doing it in 1995 to today, I think, yeah, the numbers that we've given away are over 110 million US dollars in cash and in kind donations. So over a long trajectory it can be really significant.
Pru:
Yeah, absolutely. Get on it listeners, if you haven't already checked out 1% for the Planet. You've heard me talk about this before, so you definitely should. I guess so that was a big milestone piece there. I'd love you if you could Dane just touch on, I guess any other milestone pieces. I mean, organic cotton was a really big one for Patagonia, wasn't it?
Dane:
Organic cotton is another one of those, I guess pivotal points in the company's history too, like that story about the pitons before. Organic cotton first started in 1996. And it certainly didn't come as a result of us trying to appeal for a greener market. Our commitment to shift to organic cotton really came as a result of us gaining an understanding of the impact of conventional cotton farming on the planet.
Dane:
It was kind of telling, and I think they found out that the amount of chemicals that are going into the ground, how much water was being used to on crops, so much so that they decided that we were going to make the switch. And if we couldn't make the switch, we were going to get out of those products under which that could be made. And that was a big part of the business's income at the time.
Dane:
And that really led to people kind of going, "Holy smokes, you want us to totally reinvent our supply chain, doing everything else we have to review in our jobs, it's such a tyranny crazy. So the guys, had a bit of a thinking long and hard how they can really kind of make this change. And the solution was about taking employees by the bus out to conventional and organic cotton farms to see the difference and experience the difference. In a conventional cotton farm when you arrive, smells like chemicals, there's no life, there's no birds, there's no bugs, the smells are things like mustard gas, that were awful chemicals used in World War One are still used today in farming, really kind of set a scene of desolation.
Dane:
And dirt was distilled, fertilized and watered to get these crops to grow. When they took employees to the organic cotton farms, and birds were in the air, and you can use hear them singing, you can sink your fingers in the dirt and feel bugs and worms. I think for our employees, and we're really pushing back on this initiative as a big threat to the company's survival, recognized that it was going to be a huge pain in the ass, but it was the right thing to do. And again, that kind of idea of these courage moments, these moments of reference that the company can say we made a big change, we got behind it, in fact, it has proven to be a big successful differentiator for our lifestyle sportswear products over that period of time, is another one of those points that we'll think back to and draw some courage and confidence from.
Pru:
Yeah, and for anyone listening as well, I think I read recently that the average lifespan of an Indian conventional cotton farmer is 36 years old, just to really bring home that point of how important it is that we're buying organic cotton products if we're buying cotton products. Yeah. It's actually quite-
Dane:
And one of the things that we say as a point of failure with organic cotton is we really wanted the industry to change and work hard to influence other companies through that time. But when we started that initiative, 1% of the world's cotton was deemed organic. And today, that number, that percentage number hasn't really moved. So, still a lot to do, particularly on the farming front fiber and raw materials front. I mean, much of the selling the fashion and apparel sector.
Pru:
Yeah. Well listeners, organic cotton from now on please. Were there any other pinnacle moments as you kind of trace your mind back to some of those big courage moments at Patagonia that you speak of?
Dane:
Well, I think, you know what? I'll tease you out a little bit. I mean, there's tons but the ones that stick with me most are the ones you experienced yourself too. I talked before about transparency and getting to experience that firsthand when I first started here, it was relating to our down supply chain. And so down is the term used for goose feathers. You know, we fill out jackets with and it's a product that many companies use.
Dane:
And when I'd started it was sort of right in the middle of this crisis or post crisis, but right in the middle of solution of an animal rights group called PAWS, P- A-W-S out of the UK, basically alleging to us that we may be using feathers in our supply chain, that came from geese that were live plucked or force fed . If you pluck them, they can grow the feathers again, and then you can pluck them again. So it's this awful animal cruelty aspect to these materials.
Dane:
So, the company, when they heard that allegation, most of... and what I knew about business at the time and thought most companies would do is like, "How do we make this story go away?" But Patagonia's response was that, we need to tell people that this. We need to tell them about what's going on, what's been alleged, and we need to explain to them what we're going to do to find out if we're impacted and how we're going to fix it. To me it just feels like second nature now 10 years on, but at the time, it was kind of startling. It was startling to see a business that was so willing to do the right thing that even if it was damaging to the business.
Dane:
So it was a two year process to thoroughly go through the supply chain, there was nine layers of supply chain before they got to the farms. That investigation didn't find any cases of live plucking or force feeding, but they just, had established that there was a lot of risks that could happen. And that really led to the company starting its traceable down standard to make sure that we’re only using feathers that are a byproduct, there was no life taking, no force feeding going on for the feathers alone. And that third-party certification is now being widely adopted through the industry.
Dane:
So again, this moment of crisis, tackled counter intuitively to what most business schools would say, here's how you deal with this stuff, has led to what ended up being when I joined the company, a moment of incredible young brand development capital. This was a story that we could tell about us not being perfect, and doing work to try and improve, and that we're still not perfect, but that journey continues. And we're gonna honestly show up and do our best work every year, every month, every day towards being better.
Pru:
And to take the customers on that journey with you. I think that's something that you're saying, that is just so important. It's not trying to slide over the top of it or do a PR spin around it, but just honestly transparently saying we don't exactly know where we're sitting with this, but come along the journey with us while we figure it out. And learn along the way with us as well so that when you do go to buy your next down jacket, you do you know exactly where it's coming from.
Dane:
Yeah. Like I said, it feels second nature some of these things now because they're inherently kind of human traits and things that you would treat your friends, your family in ways that you do. So to do so in business actually feels very natural and normal too, which only trained ourselves to be more mercantile and ruthless thinking in our engagements in recent times.
Pru:
Now on the topic of jackets, I have to say that the Don't Buy This Jacket campaign was hands down, brilliant, my favourite. I absolutely love it. I use it as an example all the time. But I'd love for you to talk our listeners through it.
Dane:
Okay, well, Don't Buy This Jacket was an ad that the company ran on Black Friday back in 2011. So we’re right on the precipice of Black Friday here again in 2020. And Black Friday, for those of you don't know, is a huge shopping day, and start in the US, right around Thanksgiving, and best known for its deals and discounts and frenzied consumption. And our ad, which is placed in the New York Times on that day, said, Don't Buy This Jacket that had a photo of their most successful and popular jacket at the time. But it wasn't about the catchy headline, it was more about the fine print and through the text to that ad, we asked people to really think about their purchases, buy well, buy once you really think about the impact of the goods that we're buying on the planet and those that were making them.
Dane:
I guess that it was a successful ad. At the time caught people by surprise, it got people talking. Yeah, the company sales actually grew dramatically that year, with many customers shopping with the brand for the first time. I think the lesson for us out of that wasn't we sold more stuff with that kind of counterintuitive ad, it was that we attracted new customers to the brand because of their values. And again, I think that was a real watershed moment but the company realized that it could talk more about the things... its mission and the values driving the business as a way to connect with its customers, not just rely on sport or not just rely on the kind of the more traditional subtle connections to our values.
Dane:
That thing for us of like being, I'll throw out a word here, being cognizant of our actions around those key shopping times, like Black Friday, to try and juxtapose, when people are just rushing out mindlessly buying stuff, how can we use our brand as a tool to start a conversation to say, "Hey, do you need it?" Is it really, you're just buying for the wrong sort of reasons? One of our other most sort of famous Black Friday moments was a couple of years ago, the company decided very last minute actually to donate 100% of all of our sales or our takings of the day on Black Friday, to throw out 1% of the Planet fund.
Dane:
And it bubbled up from pretty junior marketing employee meeting on a Monday, and by Friday, the board had approved it, and we were going for it the week later. And that year, we were expecting two, maybe $3 million in sales globally. And what we found is on that one day, globally, we did over $10 million in sales. And every one of those dollars was given away by the company, at some cost, because we paid for the goods that people bought, 100% of the revenue went out. But it was another moment that I think people saw what we were sort of trying to do, and really sort of twist that kind of notion of consumption and consumerism into something that can be more positive.
Pru:
Yeah, so awesome. $10 million. That's absolutely incredible. Now, I have to be a little bit cheeky here, Dane, because of course, this episode will be going live, I believe, on Black Friday. So do you have anything up your sleeve for this Black Friday?
Dane:
We do, I'd encourage people to jump on our website and check it out or buy the newspaper, The Sydney Morning Herald, or The Age, where we put some information there for people to look at and read. And again, what we want to do is use our brand to get people to stop and think about buying stuff. Do they need it? Can I buy any less? I think we want them to think about what goes into making their clothes, or what goes into making their products. And are you buying things that are the most sustainable, with people getting paid properly and treated fairly making these products? So we do have something coming out on Black Friday. I won't spoil the surprise. But I encourage your listeners to jump in and take a look.
Pru:
Yeah, get over there folks, grab yourself a paper. If Patagonia is behind it, you know, it's going to be awesome. So, Dane, just switching gears a little bit now. And I wanted to focus more internally on Patagonia, because Patagonia really does speak directly to environmental movements. But there's this innate driving force to do what's right. And so that's not only an outward facing movement, but also an inward facing movement. And I don't think this stuff gets talked about a lot by Patagonia to be honest. I mean, I've read all the books backwards forwards, And that's where we hear a little bit more about this.
Pru:
So I just wanted to touch on a couple of things, just in case our listeners sort of one aware of all the really cool ways that Patagonia treats their people as well. And kicking right off, which I think is really timely, is on site childcare. Can you talk us through sort of how that came about and the impact that it makes with Patagonia's people?
Dane:
Oh, absolutely. You know, Patagonia was one of the first companies in North America to offer child care to its employees back in the 80s. So it's been part of the company for a very long time. And it came around as a result of working mothers finding really tough or bringing their kids into the office to try and get it all done. So the company, early on, recognized if we wanted to get the best out of our employees and finding ways to support them that wasn't just increasing their paycheck, childcare could play a really big role.
Dane:
Our commitment to families, I think, goes beyond just the daycare setting, because not all of our offices around the world are big enough to sustain a daycare center. Here in Australia in fact, we don't have a daycare center, but we do run a school holiday program, run by some amazing folks, the type that keep the kids in great outdoors for a couple of weeks every school holidays. But again, as you're investing in your people and investing their families, and you're trying to break down the barriers between personal life and career in a really positive way, not negative way, not how do we get more out of people of how do we get them to take their work home? (Although we're working from home a lot at the moment). But instead asking, how do we actually show that we care about them?
Dane:
And I think what we've seen when we make that investment in something like childcare is a great example. We see employees, really revering, respecting and acknowledging that and they do their best work. They're really proud and stoked to put in for the company when it's needed. We have lots of other cool initiatives. We offer all sorts of food subsidies, a campus in Ventura has a wonderful organic cafe. We've just implemented here in Australia, but this is a nine day fortnight where we're trying to get our collective teams to take a little bit more time off.
Dane:
I guess it's just as I said, finding ways that we really can meet people where they are at, and not tell them to do stuff, not prescribe them, not necessarily see it through the lens of a social club or a bonus per se. But to really think about, how do we create a ecosystem in which we all live, and something that you can be proud of and want to be part of.
Pru:
And I only hope, as the rest of the world tries to catch up or keep up with Patagonia. Patagonia is at this focus on using business as a force for good for 50 years now. And we're just kind of seeing a surge and a trend in it at the moment. And I really hope that the focus at Patagonia has internal as well also becomes a trend. If all businesses could have some kind of on site childcare, or, as you say, school holiday programs, which actually I haven't heard of before, but you naturally do get the best out of your people, but families get the best result as well, because those kids are out doing wonderful, outdoorsy things. So I think just another kind of pitch pitch in the belt, which is just showing how business can just be such an incredible force.
Dane:
One of my colleagues, he runs marketing for Asia now, actually went to the childcare center back in the late 80s. So there's this wonderful point of life, I guess, melting pot where, kids don't see work as a mystery, they see the work the parents are doing. And one of the things that I love most when I describe the daycare center is when you... and the daycare center is in the building. It's right there in the campus, the kids are playing outside the offices, it's all sort of interconnected.
Dane:
It's really intergrated, the sounds of kids playing while you're doing your work, is an amazing kind of stress reliever. And it's just this idea about reminding us why we're all here. And I think demystification for the kids saying that work is important, and that this is what going to work looks like, is super healthy. So I think, often says like, you don't need to start a daycare center to take something from that. How can you in your business or in your life create those conditions for people who feel that way?
Pru:
And for more fluidity, I think all around between business, work, home, life, family, all the things. Beautiful. Dane, we will kind of wrap it up soon. But I just wanted to have a focus, before we wrap up on where Patagonia is looking to in the future. I mean, you've just had quite a radical change in that mission statement changing and really speaking to the urgency of the environmental crisis that we all find ourselves in at the moment. And so there's a few things that I kind of just wanted to walk through here. And really, I guess, highlight for our listeners as well. And the first one was Worn Wear, can you talk us a little through that.
Dane:
Yeah, Worn Wear is basically an expression of our commitment to repair the gear that we make. So we've always repaired goods for free. Again, this is one of the best thing we can do to look after the planet. And what we found with Patagonia being around for so long, and people having such reverence for our products, and frankly, the experiences that they had in our products, is every tear, every rip every busted zipper was attached to a product that people love or had stories to create memories with.
Dane:
So we found a way to kind of weave together the idea of those stories and recognizing more than just the environmental value. It could become landfill, but if you had a jacket that you backpacked through Europe with and we wanted to get hang on to it forever we can make that happen. It makes me recognise, again, that this idea is something that's probably been lost in this sort of modern, planned obsolescence fashion-centric economy. So Worn Wear is an evolving concept for us. We've been really focused on stories and bringing repairing to people through the events, through the tools, and things of that nature.
Dane:
And we've just recently piloted a fully second-hand Patagonia clothing store in Boulder, Colorado, and we launched a re-commerce website in the US where you can go and sell your own Patagonia gear, or we will sell it for you and give you some credits to buy some new stuff with that if you grow in that capacity. So this idea of like, not just selling new stuff as a way for our business to evolve into the future. I think it's a really exciting proposition.
Pru:
I couldn't agree more. I can't wait to see that resale store there. That'll be incredible. Now, did I hear you mention something about rentals recently as well?
Dane:
Oh, well, it's now a pilot program that we're starting in the States. we are really interested in unpacking new business models. And I guess, often, we only go skiing once a year. If you’re not a full time sport person, it might make more sense to rent to you rather than buy it and own it. I do think that business model has been around for a really long time, for hardware, for skis, and surfboards, and snowboards, and things of that nature. But it hasn't been around much for apparel.
Dane:
It has been at the very bottom end, if you want to get the shop staff that hasn't been cleaned or looked after very well, that is available to you. But if you want to use good quality high performance stuff in the power sector, that's something that we're starting to explore. So that's right at the early stages of ideation. But really interested to see if you find strike out on that business probably moving forward.
Pru:
Yeah, that sounds incredible. Really. Yeah. We're following that one closely to see how it goes. And something that recently launched as well was your food and regenerative fa... let me try that again, food and regenerative farming. And so, not only the products that are coming out, but also the focus on the storytelling and the many [inaudible 00:53:29] that you're bringing out around that as well.
Dane:
Yeah. I think the reason why we got into food was an acknowledgement by Yvon that, if we were going to save the planet, then how we grew our food was going to be integral to that. And one step further than organic is regenerative organic. So how you farm is restorative to the soil – sequestering carbon from the atmosphere, and actually doing good rather than just not doing harm. So that really simple concept is sort of just revolutionize that thinking of the company to go from, cause no unnecessary harm as we make our goods to going, how can our goods be restorative?
Dane:
So I've heard this as well today, growing very quickly in the year that we've had these people looking to eat healthy and yeah, certainly have goods that they can keep in the cupboard. Maybe in 20 years we're known more as a food business than the clothing business. That has spilled over though into our apparel business with our organic cotton farming partners, we've been working with them to take a step into what we're calling regenerative organic cotton. We've partnered with an organization in the US called the Rodale Institute to create a new certification about regenerative organic, check it out.
Dane:
But as I said before, cotton farming is an extremely intensive farming practice. And if we can help many of the world's farmers make a shift to regenerative farming, whether that be for fiber or food, we believe we can have an impact. And what's sort of really cool is that, that was sort of radical when he started talking about it inside the company, four or five years ago, but just these last four months, films like 2040, films like David Attenborough's film on Netflix, have also impacted our agenda a little bit. And yeah, it's just starting to get more attraction. And farmers in some ways are the original environmentalists, that rely on the land for their well being. And there's many... Australia is just such an amazing place where some of this stuff is taking off. So, yeah.
Pru:
Yeah. And I look forward to the day that it really clicks for people that, you know, all our well being is so connected to the farmer's well being. We've had this push in the last few decades to just get food cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, and really it should be at the top of our spending, food should be really valued. So we are, as you say, regenerating our farmland, not just taking from it.
Pru:
Awesome. And then finally, impact investing.
Dane:
Impact investing. Yeah. So we started an impact fund about five or six years ago called $20 Million and Change. But after two years they had to change names, so that account is now called Tin Shed Ventures, the Tin Shed Ventures referenced to Yvon's own blacksmith shop that sits at the back of the Ventura head office today.
Dane:
And we've invested in basically, new start-ups, businesses that are coming midway down that route of making change, but always with values alignment, and we prioritize things that we think we can certainly help scale and support in our core business. And we've invested in a company called Bureo that works with fishermen in South America to collect used fishing nets from the ocean that we buy, turn that plastic into reusable, nylon, polyester fibers that we can use in our clothing. And for many other purposes.
Dane:
One of the first things we invested in was TERSUS, it's essentially a waterless laundry machine that uses carbon dioxide to dry clothes. It's the thing about an industrial clothes dryer.. And why that's important for us is that most products that you buy have to be washed and dried at the factories before they can be sent and sold in the shops. And something ridiculous like 300 glasses of water go into making one t-shirt.
Dane:
In countries where fresh and clean water is scarce and should be prioritized for drinking and other purposes was washing fast fashion clothing. We felt like this technology using basically carbon dioxide to dry products was a great way of connecting that idea of impact investing to something that our business could make a real impact with.
Pru:
Incredible, I can't wait to wrap my eyes around that a little bit more actually, the whole impact investing side. It's not a part of Patagonia that I've paid as much attention to as the other parts. And it sounds really exciting. So I guess the last big question for me here Dane would be, what are you most excited for within Patagonia moving forward?
Dane:
I think one of the things that makes me most happy and satisfied at Patagonia is not so much about the destination, but really enjoying the process of how we're getting there. And whether that ends in a week or ends in a decade, I'm going to be really happy because I'm trying to approach every day, every week with a really healthy mindset like that. The company does great work. I'm just here for a small part of its long journey of the past and journey ahead. I get to work with amazing people, watch amazing people grow, develop around me. I get to work with some of the best in the business when it comes to product, marketing, sales, finance, you name it.
Dane:
But what's funny is that, when we used to get together, there's just an incredible friendliness, that is pervasive in how we spend time together as well. So I think what excites me most is being part of that. Really seeing that, despite all the products, innovations and incredible things that the company will ultimately do, it's as important how we do them in the spirit of how we go about them. I often say to myself, I'll know if I'm doing the right thing, if I can look myself in the mirror and say, "Would Yvon be really stuck with the decision we're taking today, or why we're taking that decision? Yeah, I think you know, we get to go to bed sleeping soundly every night.
Pru:
Yeah, awesome. Well, Dane to wrap us up, I am going to ask you some around[inaudible 01:00:19] one wild ride or rapid fire questions. Are you ready?
Dane:
Ready.
Pru:
Awesome. All right. Tea or coffee?
Dane:
Coffee.
Pru:
Perfect. Fate or free will?
Dane:
Free will.
Pru:
Do you have any kick ass daily habits in place?
Dane:
Nothing super positive. I like to run and I like to surf. And yeah, I love spending time with my family. So if I do any one or all three of those things, it's a pretty good day.
Pru:
Yeah, Lovely. Okay, now, this is a kind of theoretical question for the moment. But if you could jump on a plane tomorrow and go anywhere in the world with anyone, where would you go? And who would you go with?
Dane:
You know, what a huge question because there's probably a list of 1000 people that I'd love to go and see or go on traveling with. But really being locked in here in Victoria for most of winter, I have really missed some warm weather. And it's funny, so many great friends and so many great memories, Northern New South Wales and Queensland are just places that I'm so looking forward to getting back to. And of course, seeing all my colleagues around the world too. So I think at some point, when we get to travel again, I'm really looking forward to reconnecting with people in person to give them a big hug, not just video chat high-five .
Pru:
All right, resume. Well, you can leave your jacket tonight if I tell you that it's 35 degrees and warm here today. Final question for today, Dane. And that is, who else would you like to see me interview on the podcast?
Dane:
I know this is a business focused podcast and looking back over some of the people who talk to you – like Andy from Bellroy who is a great friend of mine – I don't know if I have a lot add to that list. But some people around your neck of the woods whom I admire and I are doing amazing work, are people like Dave Rastovich and Lauren Hill. Their Waterpeople podcast has just opened up a new way of thinking about saving the planet and storytelling for me. Another great guy, who I went to school with down here, is musician and activist Xavier Rudd, I think he’s an incredible storyteller and advocate for tackling social issues.
Dane:
And of course, I won’t miss a chance to say anyone running a B Corp business, or frankly committed to 1% of the Planet member is worth unpacking this story and just showing the diversity in the businesses out there who are finding their own road to doing good.
Pru:
Some great suggestions there. And I couldn't agree more working through B corps and 1% for the Planet members, just the stories to unpack are absolutely incredible. And [inaudible 01:03:00] definitely is on the list. And Lauren and Dave are right at the top, I can almost see their hearts from mine right here at the moment. So you'll definitely be hearing from-
Pru:
Awesome, well Dane, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute treat. I'm a huge admirer, as many people are of Patagonia. And I really want to thank you for your time, for taking us to the deep dive inside Patagonia. So thanks again.
Dane:
Well, thank you for the opportunity. And yeah, I hope there's something interesting for your listeners today to get out of the chat. So thanks.
Pru:
Awesome. Thank you