Bank Australia | Fiona Nixon
Conversation with Fiona Nixon
Bank Australia are committed to positive social and environmental change.
Owned by their customers, Bank Australia are actively listening and actioning things that matter, including land regeneration, reconciliation, affordable housing, animal welfare, renewable energy, and conservation. They’re committed to ‘clean money’ and therefore got a hard stance against coal, nuclear weapons, gambling, tobacco, live animal export. Highlighted within this conversation is how little many of us know about what our money in the bank supports, and the huge opportunity for it to enable positive change and the future we want to see.
“We see the need today to really be using the business of banking as a force for good and actually trying to reshape the economy and to engage our customers in conversations about what kind of world do they want to live in now, but also obviously in the future”
As conscious consumers we like to think that we make good ethical decisions with my money – but have you ever thought about how the way your money moves affects the industries you’re supporting?
It might alarm you to know that the financial services industry, and specifically banks are still supporting some nasty industries, that we need to be aware of.
Our guest in this episode, Fiona Nixon, Head of Strategy and Communications for Bank Australia came to talk us through what we may not know about our banking. Throughout this episode Fiona highlighted how our choices activate our future through the industries we’re inadvertently supporting.
On the flipside, there’s some very very cool things that can be funded by banks to action the solutions we already have available to us – and to positively impact our future.
Bank Australia are a great example. Owned by their customers, they channel their investments to create positive social and environmental change. They’re actively engaged in land regeneration, reconciliation, affordable housing, animal welfare, renewable energy, and conservation. Reporting directly to their shareholders (customers), they’re actively listening and actioning positive change.
Further, money held within Bank Australia is described as ‘clean’ because it is never loaned to industries (eg coal, nuclear weapons, gambling, tobacco, live animal export) that do harm.
We all use banks, so there’s a big opportunity here to make conscious decisions about where we put our money in helping to create the future we want to see.
Mentioned in conversation...
The nasty industries many banks still support, and our unknowingness in supporting this through our banking choices.
The opportunity for banking to be used as a force for good, to help create the future we want to live in.
A positive outlook on the future and the activation of incredible opportunities we already have available to us.
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Full Podcast Transcript - Fiona Nixon
Pru: Hi Fiona, and welcome to the show.
Fiona: Thanks so much for having me Pru.
Pru: An absolute pleasure. Now, I saw you speak a few months ago. It was at an event put on by our great friends at the Corner Palm here in Byron Bay, and I must admit that I was kind of gobsmacked. Considering myself quite a conscious consumer, I was gobsmacked at how little thought I'd actually put into who I bank with, and more importantly, what they are doing with my money. So I kind of thought that this was an important message to share about our banking choices because I dare say that I'm not alone. So I was hoping that we could just dive straight in. And if you could tell us, I mean, how are traditional banks managing our money. What don't we know?
Fiona: I think with banks and banking in general, there's a lot that we don't know, and I don't think it's our fault, so don't feel bad and you're definitely not alone. We go through the school system and we just learn about you need a bank account to put your money in and to get it out. And you grow up, you might need a loan for something. But we don't really ever get taught about how money works in the world and how money flows from us to industries and to businesses and back again.
Fiona: I think that has always been in the bank's best interest. Interest in some ways because they've just gone about their business. They haven't actually ever thought to educate people about what happens to the money that people put in the bank accounts. And of course banks play a very, very critical role in our economy because they do lend money to businesses and they make the world go round, to use a cliché. But it is truly about what kind of world we want and what do we want our money to be doing while it's sitting in our bank account waiting for us to use it.
Pru: Yeah, I agree. And I think you've highlighted something there is when we go through the school system, we're not taught much about money or how it works and how it actually does make the world go round. I think you have to be really active in your approach to learn about that. And even as a child, I remember it was one of the big four banks came in and set us up with a little savings account. I think that there was some plastic kind of Moneybox associated with it. But that was really all we got taught about it. So what is it that the average Joe doesn't know about how our money is being utilized in the big bank?
Fiona: Well, look, I think what we don't know really is where our money goes and what our money does. So we all have a bank account, our money goes into that bank account. But then the banks use that money. So the banks are basically using that money to lend to other people, to other businesses, and into industries. And at the moment there's no way of knowing which industries your money is supporting.
Fiona: So if you're someone who really, really cares about climate change and you would prefer not to be supporting the fossil fuel industry, there's no way of really knowing if your money is being led to the fossil fuel industry. And there are a number of banks that continue to lend to that industry. And if you bank with them, it might not be your exact dollar, but your money that is put into that pool of money that's available for that bank is going to support those industries. And I think a lot of people, if they knew that, might be quite uncomfortable about that.
Pru: And what are some of the other nasty industries that our money might be circling around in that we're unaware of?
Fiona: Well, the ones that we've talked to our customers about at Bank Australia, there's a couple. So our customers are really keen for their money not to be put into industries that generate revenue from gambling. That's definitely something we stay away from. The other interesting area is armaments. And we had a really interesting presentation the other day from a group who are associated with Don't Bank the Bomb. And there are banks and banks in Australia who continue to fund the development of nuclear weapons, for example. I think we've probably all thought that that issue was dealt with a while ago, but it's definitely still alive, and really important to people.
Fiona: And the other one that we've been talking a lot about recently is the live animal export industry. Our customers have been asking us about animal welfare and particularly live export the last couple of years. And as a result, we've decided not to invest in that industry as well just because we feel like it does more harm than good.
Pru: I mean, I think we're all becoming increasingly conscious consumers and definitely the listeners here in One Wild Ride podcast we talk a lot about our ethical fashion choices, and a lot of the businesses that have been featured on here are B corps. And so really using business as a force for good, and our listeners really resonate with that. So being conscious about where we buy this dress from or which type of brand of beer that we're buying down at the pub. But I think as you sort of touched on a little bit earlier, is the banking industry has sort of been nameless and faceless for quite a long time, and it feels like that might be slightly purposeful, that it's been kept like that. Would you mind delving into that a little bit more?
Fiona: Sure. Look, I think banking has always positioned itself kind of neutrally. It's been a neutral sort of middle person between yourself and the money that you get and the money that you spend. And I think that's really as a result of the fact that that's always been the history of banks. But of course as things have changed really in the last 20 years, with people thinking about money with a more values lens across it, some of that positioning has been undermined. The banks will say that their primary objective is to [inaudible 00:10:02] returns to shareholders, and in that way they are seeking opportunities to do that.
Fiona: I suppose lots of people and more and more people are starting to question whether pure profit maximization should be the primary driver of business. And I think that conversation is now slowly expanding into the banking and finance sector as well.
Pru: It's exciting, isn't it?
Fiona: Yes, I think so. I think absolutely it is because banks do fund the economy and they fund the future and they fund our businesses, and so they can make choices about how to shape that because they do have a lot of influence. And they may as well be having a positive influence.
Pru: Yeah, I love that. I mean in your role, because you head up strategy and communications there at Bank Australia, have you seen... I mean is it just the last few years or the last few months? I mean, are you seeing a rise up in sort of more questions being asked and this more conscious-led approach to banking, particularly recently?
Fiona: I personally think that there are lots of people who've been caring about these things for a very long time. But there definitely has been an opening up of the platform not just for banking and a range of other businesses to start talking about issues that are not just associated with their knitting, to use our prime minister's words. You've had even like the CEO of BHP stand up and talk about climate change, which is quite extraordinary. You've had other corporations starting to speak out on issues such as marriage equality and climate. So I think there definitely is a shift and I think it's being driven by ordinary people demanding that brands and companies start thinking about more than just their patch, but start thinking about the communities that they operate in and the communities that they draw their customers from.
Pru: I would definitely agree. And like I said before, I think it's just so exciting that consumers are really driving this change now, and that is now stepping into those industries that have almost seemed as though a voice at the table would never be heard. I think banking is one, superannuation is another. It seems to mostly be the financial sector where consumers haven't felt like they have a voice, and now they do. And yeah, the transparency that's arising for that are just... Yeah, I think it's an incredible sort of time to be alive and as people realize how much power they do have in their hands, particularly when we're having conversations like this out loud and being broadcasted about the positive change we can action just even from those dollars sitting in our bank accounts that we might not think about on a day to day basis.
Fiona: People have different ways that they like to express their views and express... Some people are really motivated to go out into the streets and be activists that way, other people are doing it in much quieter ways in their communities. And then all of us, regardless of how much money we have, are making choices as consuming people every day. And then there is so much power in that. And you can see even after the Royal Commission into the financial services last year, we've been growing much more strongly than we ever had before, which is incredible. But so are some of the other more ethically orientated super funds, which is another sign of people [inaudible 00:14:05] and really sort of doing something tangible that makes them feel like they're behaving more in line with what they think is important.
Pru: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I was actually sitting down with the folks from Stone and Wood up here in Byron Bay yesterday, and we were just like absolutely giddy on how much of this conversation is happening right now and how many decisions or how many... How do I say this? How many opportunities we have every single day as consumers to vote with our pocket. From taking our Cape Cup and which type of coffee we buy, through to what we're putting in our cars, who we're banking with, what beer we're drinking in the afternoon, what clothes we have on our back. It can be up to 20 votes a day that you're actually having for the future that you want to live in. This is incredible to have these opportunities available right now.
Fiona: I think it absolutely is, and I think it's really important to have some positivity and some hope around actions that people are taking because there's a lot of heavy stuff going down in the lab as well. And keeping that view of what you can do as a person. And also knowing that there are [inaudible 00:15:26] lots and lots of people seeking the same [inaudible 00:15:29] you are. And [inaudible 00:15:31]. It is. It's very exciting and you feel like there could actually be some real positive change.
Fiona: We're a member of an Alliance of banks across the world or with a similar sort of mindset. And that's really inspiring too. There's this incredible bank in Mongolia, of all places, who are also just trying to look after their communities, help people do the best that they can. So while for Bank Australia that means [inaudible 00:16:06] we're investing in social and environmental projects. For PAC bank, it's actually about keeping people alive during the winters because the winters have gotten more and more ferocious over the last decade there. So we're drawing some inspiration from all these different stories around the world.
Pru: Yeah, that's absolutely amazing. I love hearing that. Awesome. Okay. So if we could switch it up a little bit now, I'd love to ask you about Bank Australia because Bank Australia has been around for quite a while, but you've actually been through some changes over the years. So can you tell us a little bit about the background?
Fiona: Yeah, of course. Bank Australia originally started as the credit union for the CSIRO scientists. And that was back in 1957. So we have been around for a while. In the intervening years, we've had a whole range of different credit unions merge into the one. So this included some education credit unions, university, and arrange of regional credit unions as well. So we have a long history of people coming together to make banking happen in a different way.
Fiona: And I guess that's what I was referring to when I said I think that this sort of different way of thinking about banking and banking for good and for community has been around for a long time. It was only in 2015 that we decided to take the step of a new name, and a new name that would now last forever, and became Bank Australia in August 2015. So while the name is relatively new, the bank isn't, and we're just really building on a long history of doing good in our communities.
Pru: I love that you've pointed that out actually because when... Like I said, I saw you speak a few months ago and I was so impressed by what you had to say and how much light you brought and also the grace with which you delivered your message. And in my mind I was like, "Why haven't I heard about Bank Australia earlier? Why have I been dominated by the big four banks or even some of the smaller ones?" So that's really good to clarify that, you do have such a long history and that you are this amalgamation and have come out with such a strong name of Bank Australia, which I love.
Fiona: We didn't know for a while whether we're going to be able to have it because we obviously tried to trademark the logo and name and if one of the other big banks with fairly similar names would have challenged us, I'm not sure that we would have been able to fight it. So it was a big day when the trademark came through.
Pru: I love that. I love that. Yeah, it's big and it's bold and it stands for what Australians [inaudible 00:21:21] to stand for as well. I love that you guys have nailed that down. Now you're also a customer owned bank. So can you tell us what that means?
Fiona: Sure. And this is another continuation from the credit union movement. So when we talk about being customer owned, it means that every customer has a share in the bank. We don't have external shareholders. The customers are the shareholders, which when you say it today, it sounds really radical, but it's also a really kind of old fashioned, if you like, tradition from the cooperative movement around the world.
Fiona: What it means for our customers is that they get one share, they can't gather up more shares, they can't trade it or give it away to anybody else, and they can vote in our elections for directors. And we also ask customers to vote for changes to our constitution or other big business decisions or changes. So there's an element of democracy, but it also does mean that our loyalties are not split between our shareholders and our customers.
Pru: You're purely there for the customers. Yeah. I love how you said that it does sound really radical in a way, but also so old school in the same breath, which I think there's so much of that generally happening in our society today when we're looking at climate change and wastage and fast fashion. I mean, what we are trying to do is go back to the way that things originally were. So it's interesting that everything that was old is now becoming new. And yeah, it's interesting to hear that your customers... It sounds like with one share each, they all have equal seats at the table.
Fiona: That's right. And it is a continuation of a tradition, but we've been really good conscious to try and reinvent cooperative banking for the issues that really matter to our society today. So after the second World War, ordinary people were not able to get any sort of credit from banks for even like a washing machine or something like that. And that was the need back then. Whereas we see the need today to really be using the business of banking as a force for good and actually trying to reshape the economy and to engage our customers in conversations about what kind of world do they want to live in now, but also obviously in the future.
Pru: If we could just take that paragraph and put it on a billboard and put some neon flashing signs around it, that would be amazing. A bank that's actually interested in doing the right thing. And like you say, opening up conversation, having conversations with both of your customers and with people that aren't customers as well. The event that I saw you speak out was very much a community event. And here we have the head of strategy and communications having a conversation with us about banking. So I love the stance that you guys are taking around. And also what I found interesting, researching a little bit more about Bank Australia, was your responsible lending policy. So can you talk to us a little bit more about that?
Fiona: Yeah, sure. So I mentioned a little bit earlier in our chat about the industries that we feel like we're not going [inaudible 00:24:56] until we don't invest in because our customers don't want us to. Where we've actually, I guess, enshrined that and made it 100% watertight is in this responsible banking policies. So the policy drives the decision making of our lenders and it's used to screen applications coming in to make sure that we are not exposed to the industries that we have in the policy in which the fossil fuel industry, our moments gambling, our love animal export and intensive farming. And I have forgotten one. That's not very good. Anyway-
Pru: [inaudible 00:25:43].
Fiona: [inaudible 00:25:45] Yeah. It will come to me. On the positive side though, and this is really important, it's not just about avoiding certain industries, it's also about making sure that we do put customer's money where it's going to have a positive impact. And so the policy then also outlines the areas that we really want to invest in. And that includes affordable housing. So we do work funding housing projects for women escaping family violence. We've also just developed some real expertise in funding a specialist disability housing, and we have a number of those projects underway at the moment. And then more recently we've started to look at community owned or community based renewable energy projects, and trying to look for opportunities to help that sector come along through the funding.
Pru: Wow.
Fiona: I guess we want to avoid harm, but we also want to try and do good. And so we've been building a part of the business, which we call impact finance, and their pure role is to find those projects in those positive areas for us to [inaudible 00:27:02] and make a difference with customers money.
Pru: How fantastic. Oh, this is incredible. I hope everyone that's listening is really like sitting up and paying attention that this is... I mean this is the world that we want to live. This real, really forward focused positive approach. We have the resources. I think this is kind of the narrative that we want to talk about changing that you touched on earlier, is that we have so many of the solutions right now, if we just implement the things that we have. And we have businesses like Bank Australia, like so many others that we've had here on the podcast. And we get behind them and we support them. It's happening now. It's possible to really turn this big ship that has really gone, as humanity, being a ship that has gone in the wrong direction. We have the resources and the capacity to turn it around now. And I think we need to be talking more and more about how much power we do have every day to do that.
Fiona: I couldn't agree more. I don't know if you've seen it, and I'm sure lots of your listeners have seen the documentary 2040.
Pru: Yes.
Fiona: And the thing that I loved so much about that documentary was it was identifying things that are in place at the moment. Some of them are still small. Granted that there are solutions everywhere you look. And from the banking perspective and a finance perspective, most solutions need money in order to scale, and they need to prove the concept, and they need to de-risk themselves so that money can flow that way and make a change. And it's not really that hard once you start getting focused on it.
Pru: Exactly. And I feel so excited about the future. I've said it a whole bunch of times now. But I feel so excited about the future because there's so much happening right now, and the more voice we can bring to it. And it's a big part of why I launched this podcast was because there are so many amazing businesses doing so many amazing things. And I think Damon, who's a friend of mine, did such a brilliant job with 2040. And has just been nominated for Australian of the year. So rightly so, to show us that yeah, it's happening right now, it's possible right now if we want it to be.
Fiona: Most definitely. Most definitely.
Pru: Awesome. Awesome. Okay. I mean, great little segue into the positive impact that Bank Australia is having. And I did nerd out a bit, I went into the Bank Australia 2019 impact report. And had good look in there.
Fiona: [inaudible 00:29:43].
Pru: I know. I love it. It gets me giddy. So there was six highlights in that. I want to go through them all, but I would highly recommend for our readers, whether you're with Bank Australia or you're not, or you're thinking about it, or you're not, just go and have a look at what's happening and what can be done because the whole grain of this conversation is how much can be done.
Pru: There were two highlights in particular that really grabbed my attention, that I was hoping that you could talk us through a little bit more. The first was the impact fund, which was around the 1.3 million in projects and partnerships. And then the second one was the reconciliation or the new reconciliation action plan. So I believe you touched on some of the impacts from before, but if you could just let us know, dive a little bit deeper into that, that would be fantastic.
Fiona: Yeah, sure. The Bank Australia impact fund has been around for a long time now. It's about 15 years old and every year the bank puts 4% of its after tax profits into that fund. And that equates to around a million dollars a year. And we then have the great privilege to find projects and partnerships that we want to support, that is creating a positive impact. And we do that by aligning the project with the issues that our customers tell us are important.
Fiona: The biggest flagship project that we found out of that is the conservation reserves, which is a thousand hectare property in the Wimmera region of Victoria. And we've spent 10 years regenerating that property. We've done a lot of tree planting. We've done a lot of work on identifying the local species that live there and creating habitat for them. And most recently, we've actually... And this does link in a little bit with our new reconciliation action plan. We've been working very hard with the traditional owners in the Wimmera to try and find ways to make the property available to that community, but also to start incorporating traditional practices into the land management of that reserve.
Fiona: We get asked all the time, "Why would a bank own a conservation reserve?" The real answer is that it is a really important, really tangible way that we can demonstrate what we mean by responsible banking. And we've been able to partner with amazing organizations like Greening Australia and Trust for Nature, and now more recently, the [inaudible 00:32:37] land council to try and create something unique that has a range of not just conservation benefits but also scientific benefits and cultural benefits.
Pru: Oh wow. That's incredible. And we're actually going to put some photos up in the show notes. So for anyone that wants to have a look at the reserve, it really is absolutely beautiful. We'll pop it up. I run a website, which is onewildride.co. So be sure to head over there and have a look.
Pru: And I love, Fiona, how you are really integrating indigenous practices in there. And I feel like it's the next big leap for Australia. I know there's been efforts to sort of bridge the gap between... Well, bridge the gap that exists currently between the indigenous community and their traditional practices. And I just think there's so much more that can be done in this area and it's so cool to see that you guys are really leaning into that.
Fiona: I mean, the indigenous communities know more about this land than anyone, obviously. And as we face the challenges of climate change, we're going to need every possible solution that we can, and there is so much to be learnt from the traditional practices. Unfortunately, as we found in Wimmera is that a lot of the knowledge that was in some of the communities has been passed or it's been fragmented due to the processes of resettlement and putting communities in missions and those sorts of things. And so actually having land in country available and resources for those communities to relearn skills and practice them, is also really, really important.
Fiona: We also did a cultural heritage survey on our conservation reserve earlier this year and we found some amazing pieces of heritage that are now being registered here in Victoria. But it was really, really... I was shocked and I was also quite heartbroken to hear that it was the first cultural [inaudible 00:35:02] in that area that wasn't closed. The heritage was [inaudible 00:35:11].
Fiona: To me, it's just not good enough. We need to be far more proactive to help protect cultural heritage and also to try and do what we can to rebuild the strength and knowledge within those communities in the way that they would like that to happen.
Pru: I think that's really important, and how much that we have to learn. I mean it was interesting, quite a few episodes... I think it was about episode six, I interviewed Delta Kay who's a representative here in Byron from the Bundjalung people. And just in speaking to her and just how much wisdom she held, like in her knowledge, in her heart, in her bones, about this place. And the way that it was described, it was so enriching to see this place through new eyes and understand it in different ways.
Pru: But I think that piece is actually so interesting that when we realize how much we have to learn and how enriching it is to our own lives to understand this country better, then I think everyone will be giving it a lot more importance to move forward.
Fiona: Yeah. I couldn't agree more, Pru. It's incumbent on every Australian to find ways to create platforms and find ways for [inaudible 00:36:43] listened to and learned from.
Pru: Yeah. Awesome. All right, Fiona. Well, what's next for Bank Australia? I mean, you've done a huge conglomeration over the years, you've come out with this incredibly strong name. You're customer-owned. It sounds very much like a bank by the people for the people. And putting proactive, positive impact on the forefront of what you do. What does the next maybe year, five years, 10 years look like for Bank Australia?
Fiona: Some of the work that we need to do in the next couple of years is more along the lines of the boring but important stuff.
Pru: The banking.
Fiona: Well, no, I mean in all seriousness, we want people to join us because they think like we think, but we also need to be able to provide them with banking that is easy to use, it's digitally enabled, and those sorts of things. So we're very focused on the digitization and getting things efficient and, in the words of the marketers, the customer experience right, because we know that that's also really important.
Fiona: But on the other side of things, we have been talking about clean money for about a year, but what we'd really love to see and what we're hoping to do as part of starting these conversations is to create or to help a movement of people around clean money to form and to get a pace.
Fiona: I mean it's about joining us, but it's also about helping people think about money in many different ways and the many different ways that they use money and where they put their money. So we're trying to think about new ways that we can engage our customers to engage others around this conversation [inaudible 00:38:39] money.
Pru: Amazing. So a real grassroots kind of approach to this conversation.
Fiona: Yeah. That's where it needs to happen. We want to try and see a bottom up conversation, and we're a small bank but we have very, very close, very loyal relationships with our customers who are just absolutely amazing. And they're also enthusiastic and passionate.
Pru: That is fantastic. And I know definitely up here in Bryon Bay, Bank Australia is making a big impact and for exactly the right reasons is getting on the ground and talking with the people about how it affects each and every one of us. And like we've talked thoroughly about, is the positive impact that we can make. That's exciting.
Fiona: It is. There's never a dull moment.
Pru: I can imagine. It sounds like you're literally shaking up an industry and leading a grassroots movement at the same time. There shouldn't be [inaudible 00:39:39]. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, well to wrap us up, Fiona, I'm going to ask you some of our One Wild Ride rapid fire questions. Ready? Ready to go?
Fiona: Sure.
Pru: Awesome. All right. Tea or coffee?
Fiona: Coffee in the morning, tea the rest of the day.
Pru: Ooh, I like it, both. Fate or free will?
Fiona: Free will.
Pru: Nice. Do you have any kickass daily habits in place?
Fiona: I make this power smoothie in the morning.
Pru: Ooh, nice. I like it. Okay. If you could jump on a plane tomorrow and go anywhere in the world with anyone, where would you go and who would you go with?
Fiona: I would go to Nepal with my partner to do a trek into the mountains.
Pru: Oh, amazing. My best friend is married to a Nepalese man. If you need tips, I've got them for you. Who else would you like to see me interview on the podcast?
Fiona: Someone just came to mind as we were talking about reconciliation and there's an amazing woman called Corina Nolan who runs an organization called Original Power. And she is building the capacity of Aboriginal and [Tourist-led 00:41:05] islander organizations to run their own campaigns to stand up against fossil fuel extraction and mining in their local communities. And she is a force of nature.
Pru: Wow. Definitely. If you're listening there Corina, I'd love to talk to you. I saw a fascinating documentary on this just a few weeks ago. So yeah. The more empowered that they can be on the front line there, the Aboriginal people, I think incredible. Awesome. All right, Fiona, how can people connect with you?
Fiona: The best way to connect with me is probably on LinkedIn, and send me a note. Love to hear from people who are thinking about all the same issues that we are.
Pru: Awesome. Fiona, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. It is been such an eye opener for me and I'm sure for our listeners as well. It's incredible the work that you're doing there at Bank Australia and hopefully our small part here is helping that good word spread.
Fiona: Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, Pru.
Pru: Thank you.